Dark Savage wrote on 02/05/08 at 07:18:28:Instead, you posted an exaggerated view without any kind of perspective for people to know you were exaggerating. . . . . . .You said "Compared to most other modern Japanese bikes the LS is flawed - it's unbelievably slow, handles like a croc, doesn't stop, has a major problem with the cam chain tensioner falling out before the chain reaches service limit, and has typically dubious Suzuki quality issues on surface finish." Lets analyze this.
I didn’t exaggerate, my opinions were entirely fact-based and the product of experience of an awful lot of different bikes that I can compare with. I’ll add to your comments:
A. All bikes have design flaws, of course – but not many will eat hard metal and wreck the motor at 15000 miles because of a tensioner design fault.
B. You actually state that the Savage ‘accelerates quicker at non-highway speeds than a large portion of cars on the road’, from which I have to infer that you agree it also accelerates slower than a portion of cars on the road. That’s just so bad! Except for supercars, no car should be faster accelerating than a full-sized bike - that’s just plain embarrassing!!
Like it or not it IS a very slow bike – people counter that statement by saying it can travel at highway speed. Is that supposed to be impressive, being able to hit 75 or 80 on a 650cc bike? A couple of mph faster than an old Panther, made in about 1950 and about the same size single cylinder - and 25mph slower than a Virago 535!!
I just find it amazing that anybody can own a 650cc road bike that can only hit maybe 80mph and claim its powerful.
On an earlier thread about the Savage’s power on poor soul described it as ‘massively over-powered’ compared to 250cc cruisers. Well,it would be.
I guess I could describe my old lady as an awesome cage fighter if I compare her to next door’s 2-year old child. It's all relative.
C. The handling is okay if you want woolly, imprecise handling and can't push the bike hard enough to feel flex in the poor frame, forks and shocks. I can live with that kind of setup on a cute little bike like the Savage, because my use for it will be slow town riding, but I would not try to convince myself – or anybody else – that the Savage handles well. It’s very limited bike in terms of handling, unless you compare it to some barge of a big soft-sprung heavy cruiser.
D. Yes, it stops and meets build standards for stopping. I would even agree that it stops faster than you could manage by dragging your boots on the ground, or an old vintage bike with tiny drums. Big deal – it still needs better brakes. Guess some people are only used to poor brakes and happy with them.
E. ‘Some design issues’!! That’s a great way to describe a problem which prematurely toast the motor. You a politician??
F. As I said perfectly clearly, finish is a Suzuki problem far from unique to the Savage.
I’ll stand by the statement that people buy a different bike if what they want is performance – the Savage is a cute little thing but it’s a low-grade performer. Even 500cc budget twins like the Honda CB500, Kawasaki EN500, Suzuki GS500 out-perform the Savage in terms of power, brakes and handling (57bhp/115mph for the CB) – and they’re made for learners to cut their teeth on before they move on to a proper bike.
The Virago 535 must be about the closest competitor and runs rings round the Savage for brakes, power and handling.
Trippah summed it up nicely with “
the Savage is a 20 year old under-engineered mildly tuned beastie, designed for relatively easy going putters”. At least some people on here can make an honest reflection on the market niche that their bike fills.
The Savage is a nice little bike and is a pleasure to sit on and tinker with, and fits a market niche. But
don’t call it powerful, and
don’t delude yourselves that it handles well. That would just be
opinion based on limited experience of mainstream bikes, and it would seem that such opinion is a no-no round here!
Fact – the Savage makes little power, unless somebody can put forward a case to suggest that under 30hp is good power??
Fact – it has faults, just read the forum.
Fact – it’s not a sharp handler – it’s just about okay for a cruiser.
Fact – it has weak brakes, they’re just about good enough – for a cruiser.
It seems that if you pass off facts you will get flamed and called names when over-sensitive owners feel their pride in their little thumpers is dented – maybe that’s what will never change.
Thanks for taking the time to reply with a well thought out post. It makes it much easier for the intelligent and the not so intelligent to see what you are saying.
I haven't personally ridden many bikes so I can't argue on handling or braking because I don't have a point of reference. I do know that doing city speeds the Savage has a much quicker feel to the handling than my dad's Honda VLX cruiser. I prefer the handling of the VLX for highway though. I am also fairly proficient at math so let me give a shot at the "little power" opinion.
The Savage is 352 pounds and has 31 HP. I would venture to say the average Savage rider is 170 pounds. The combined weight of the rider and the bike is 522 pounds. This gives us 16.8 pounds per HP.
A 2002 Honda Shadow VT750 C2 has 43 HP and weighs 505 pounds according to bikez.com. If you put the same rider on this bike you get a combined weight of 675 pounds. This gives us 15.7 pounds per HP.
The HP to weight ratio of the Savage looks pretty close to (but slightly under) one of the best selling import cruisers on the market (which is also a bigger bike).
You also say the Savage will go "maybe 80 MPH". I can personally attest that a stock Savage will do more. I was 2up on the little Savage last night. I weigh about 160 and I would guess my passenger to weigh about the same. I was cruising at about 85 and didn't have the throttle all the way open. This was not downhill. My speedometer is actually pretty accurate. There's plenty of radar machines around here to compare to.
When I read your original post it seemed to me to hint that the Savage was so bad as to be a danger. Doesn't stop, unbelievably slow, and handles like a croc are often taken to be very strong terms and I'm sure you didn't mean for them to come off that way. Regardless, all three of those are an opinion even if those opinions are based on facts like "the Savage doesn't accelerate as fast as XXXX bike". Those opinions were thrown in with facts like the finish has quality issues and the timing chain tensioner often fails prematurely.
So people don't misunderstand your intentions, opinions should at the very least be stated separate from facts. They should also probably have strong context clues that they are in fact opinion. If you don't then people might feel that you are abrasive or an @sshole.
Pages: 
