SuzukiSavage.com - Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Norton?

Gort

Ex Member

Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor
Reply #15 - 02/03/08 at 11:20:31

I had no idea my simple question would turn into such a controversy. Solid State electronics usually give no warning before they fail, and when they do, you stop and get towed. Furthermore, once the manufacturer decides not to make these components anymore, it can be impossible to find replacement units. I have a '95 Jaguar (52,000 miles) whose ECU failed. The ECU has been out of production for years and only used ones are available, IF you can find one. Good luck!

My '96 Savage (3000 miles) is like new and I will never sell it. Years from now when the computerized solid state components fail, will Suzuki still be making them? Who knows? Furthermore, I ride in remote mountain areas and am considering a cross country trip through long stretches of remote areas. What am I going to do if some rectifier or amplifier dies, with the usual NO warning? Yes, I know that many people get lots of miles out of these components, but not everyone and you will see cars stopped along the road due to failed S.S. components.

My solution to all this is that I am going to buy all the solid state components involved with this motorcycle's engine and keep them as spares, and carry them with me on long or remote rides.

I have a '91 Volvo which I drove into remote mountains at night in the freezing cold, and the car stopped. The ignition amplifier module died, according to the on-board diagnostics. I was out of cellphone reception.
But you know what? I got home because I had a spare amplifier module with me ($200.00) , among other spares. I still say a primitive breaker point system with routine maintenance is more reliable than solid state electronics, gives plenty of imminent failure warnings and is way, way cheaper.

Back to top

IP Logged

Paladin.

Serious Thumper

Offline

Hamster

Posts: 4929
Sunny Southern California
Gender: male

Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor
Reply #16 - 02/03/08 at 12:09:33

KwakNut wrote on 02/03/08 at 07:21:14:

....If it’s not flawed, how come so many people need cam chains or tensioner mods? How come the exhausts manifold and header need sorting? How come most people over 5’10” need extended forward controls? How come lots of people have to change the bars? Bigger fuel tanks? Over-rated headlamp bulbs to compensate for the poor lamp? Carb mods to compensate for the poor factory carburetion? ....

Cam chain/tensioner -- high mileage only. Consider that that average motorcycle clocks 1800 miles a year -- that includes long range touring machines. For a little cruiser, 500 miles a year is closer to average usage. An you're looking at 40 years minimum before you need to worry about the cam chain for the vast majority of Savage riders. Those on this site are not average. It is the FEW, not the many, that need bother with the cam chain. Exhausts manifold and header does nor need "sorting" -- the majority stick with the stock exhaust system, those few who do anything mostly just swap out the muffler. MOST people over 5'10 do not need extended controls and don't have them. Most people keep the stock bars. I've crossed the Mojave on the stock tank -- most agree that gas is a good excuse to stop at least every hundred miles. Extremely few have gone with larger tankage. The 'poor' headlamp is a legal halogen, same as in the vast majority of motorcycles. The carb mods are again done by a minority of Savage owners, to adjust away from federal standards.

That the Savage does not meet your limited view of what a motorcycle should be/do does not mean it is flawed.

---------------------------------------------------------------

This thread is about the reliability of the Savage, versus old Brit bikes.

As I said, over three years, eighteen thousand miles, zip maintanance beyond oil, and zip problems. That is pretty darn reliable by any standard I can think of. How many old Brit bikes could do the same?

Back to top

IP Logged

KwakNut

Senior Member

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 332
Sheffield, England, mostly.
Gender: male

Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor
Reply #17 - 02/03/08 at 13:53:12

Paladin. wrote on 02/03/08 at 10:49:57:

First, you did not state that it was your opinion. You wrote as if what you stated was factual.
You insulted me when you wrote:
Quote:

If people want ... a quirky little single cylinder custom bike, it has to be the Savage.
Anybody who wants performance, handling, brakes or power and buys a Savage has the wrong bike.

First of all, I do NOT want a quirky little single cylinder custom bike. That is NOT why I picked the Savage. I DO want performance, handling, braking, and power and I have been quite happy on the Savage for over three years. YOU say I have the "wrong bike" -- basically claiming that I am a bloody know-nothing idiot. That you do notice you are insulting people doesn't mean you are not highly insultive.
The Savage exceeds my requirements performance, handling, brakes and power. Yet you claim that I have "the wrong bike." What bike should I be riding?

For goodness’ sake man, when I said “Anybody who wants performance, handling, brakes or power and buys a Savage has the wrong bike”, what I meant was that people who want a fast cruiser buy a V-max, people who want handling buy a Ducati 916, people who want power buy a Hayabusa, if you want good brakes buy a Jap race rep.

If you want a combination of performance features, buy a ZRX1200 or something similar. If you want a pretty, unique and highly appealing little bike and are prepared to accept compromise in terms of power, handling and brakes, then buy a Savage because it’s a nice little thing but is pretty crap in terms of all performance measurements.

And, if you’re going to do so, remove the corn cob from wherever it might be stuck.

Back to top

If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.
--General George S. Patton

IP Logged

Paladin. Serious Thumper Offline Hamster Posts: 4929 Sunny Southern California Gender:	Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor Reply #18 - 02/03/08 at 15:17:32 KwakNut wrote on 02/03/08 at 13:53:12: ...And, if you’re going to do so, remove the corn cob from wherever it might be stuck. Come on over and bend over so I can pull it out.
Back to top	IP Logged

KwakNut

Senior Member

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 332
Sheffield, England, mostly.
Gender: male

Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor
Reply #19 - 02/03/08 at 16:27:00

Paladin. wrote on 02/03/08 at 15:17:32:

KwakNut wrote on 02/03/08 at 13:53:12:

...And, if you’re going to do so, remove the corn cob from wherever it might be stuck.

Come on over and bend over so I can pull it out.

10/10 on that reply - made me laugh.

Come on man, we both love bikes, all I did was suggest the Savage isn't an athlete amongst bikes - it isn't, but it's still a lovely bike.

That's all I'm saying.

Back to top

If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.
--General George S. Patton

IP Logged

KwakNut Senior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 332 Sheffield, England, mostly. Gender:	Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor Reply #20 - 02/03/08 at 16:29:33 Paladin. wrote on 02/03/08 at 12:09:33: As I said, over three years, eighteen thousand miles, zip maintanance beyond oil, and zip problems. That is pretty darn reliable by any standard I can think of. How many old Brit bikes could do the same? After 18000 miles. none of them!
Back to top	If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. --General George S. Patton IP Logged

Gort

Ex Member

Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor
Reply #21 - 02/03/08 at 16:46:41

KwakNut wrote on 02/03/08 at 16:29:33:

Paladin. wrote on 02/03/08 at 12:09:33:

As I said, over three years, eighteen thousand miles, zip maintanance beyond oil, and zip problems. That is pretty darn reliable by any standard I can think of. How many old Brit bikes could do the same?

After 18000 miles. none of them!

What happened to the days when your motorcycle ran well because YOU had the ability to keep it running, and the guts to control it? Whats wrong with the smell of hot metal burning the oil that was leaking onto it? Which gives you more pride and satisfaction, an old British bike which exists because of your guts and mechanical ability, or a maintenance free, smooth Japanese bike which anyone can own and ride?

Back to top

IP Logged

Dynobob

Serious Thumper

Offline

2003 LS650 (with
Supertrapp)

Posts: 634
Northern Virginia
Gender: male

Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor
Reply #22 - 02/03/08 at 16:49:31

T Mack 1 - FSO wrote on 02/02/08 at 13:14:10:

BUT it out did a '03 Honda 750 Shadow Spirit (VT750DC) my friend has.... that is until about 70 mph. It stops about the same....

Apples and oranges. The Honda weighs 550 lbs. The Suzuki weighs 350 lbs. It's about power to weight ratio. A tuned Suzuki will walk away from a Honda v-twin and most cruisers (Harleys included).

My LS650 has plenty of power and tons of torque. It handles GREAT and is very flickable. It's a very capable bike.

KwakNut - if your Savage runs so horribly, it's either stock or hasn't been tuned properly. If you're comparing modern sportbikes and crotch rockets to the Savage 650, why bother Roll Eyes

The Savage is a proven design based on 1980s technology. Brit bikes are notoriously unreliable. Their Lucas electrics were poor and rather unreliable. The Savage with it's solid state electrics and belt drive are quite troublefree. I don't do much to mine but change the oil and ride the wheels off it.

Back to top

IP Logged

Holodeck

Full Member

Offline

I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 144
Seattle

Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor
Reply #23 - 02/03/08 at 17:48:09

Sort things out? Well I guess I did. Lets see--- $8 for jets, $50 for a fish tail straight pipe ( very old school ), A $5 baffel, $13 air filter and some wieght loss. Now I have a great sounding bike that wipes Harleys in stop light drags. Reminds me of the old Ford flathead days when with some carb work, dual exhaust and by taking off some junk you could beat any stock car on the road.

It was fun to do and cheap. Try that with a car today, or most bikes for that matter.

And besides, this thread is a lot more fun than getting pissy about politics. Wink

Back to top

« Last Edit: 02/03/08 at 19:13:03 by Holodeck »

IP Logged

jjn

Junior Member

Offline

I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 61
Keaau, Hi. USA
Gender: male

Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor
Reply #24 - 02/03/08 at 18:31:39

I don't have a Savage/S40, but have admired them for a long time as a relatively simple thumper-and I am a thumper fa n and have owned a bunch-mostly dual sports. I will probably own an S40 sometime. What I like about them is:
1.they are a thumper
2.They are a simple , basic motorcycle.
3.They are light in weight
4.I really like what can be done with one as far as mods.Looking at photos of Savages/S40s that have been modified has given me all kinds of ideas..I would love an S40 that looked more like the old Yamaha SR500 basic roadster style.I have saved lots of Savage photos of "bobbers" to my computer.
5.Good, not great, gas mileage.
6.Air cooled for simplicity and easy maintenance.
7.Nice torquey engine.

What I don't like:
1.Gas tank is pretty small.
2.Don't like the "buckhorn" or pull back bars on the older Savage (do like the drag bars on the newer S40).
3.Would prefer standard foot controls/footpegs over the forward mounts.
4.Cam chain tensioner problem.Every motorcycles has a weakness-like the Kawasaki KLR650 "doohickey" or counterbalancer tensioner.
ioer.
5.Wish the overall size was just a little bit larger physically.

I own three thumpers right now. A 2005 KLR650.A 2007 Yamaha XT225.And a 2007 Royal Enfield Bullet. I have to smile when I read about the Savage/S40 being an old design and such.Try riding an Enfield Bullet! That bike wears its 60 year old design like a badge of honor.In straight line acceleration your Savage will smoke a Bullet all day long.Yet I am having a riot riding this bike. Of course I'm old enough to have ridden the old British bikes back when they ruled the motorcycle scene and when the were the performance king.My Bullet even comes with something called a "kickstarter" should the electric start system fail.

Jon

Back to top

Jon in Puyallup, Wa. USA

IP Logged

Paladin.

Serious Thumper

Offline

Hamster

Posts: 4929
Sunny Southern California
Gender: male

Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor
Reply #25 - 02/03/08 at 19:50:06

Arthur wrote on 02/03/08 at 16:46:41:

....Which gives you more pride and satisfaction, an old British bike which exists because of your guts and mechanical ability, or a maintenance free, smooth Japanese bike which anyone can own and ride?

I'm not riding to stroke my ego/pride. I'm not out to prove how good or skillful I am. I'm not out to see how fast I can go. I use the Savage for my primary transportion. If it breaks either someone has to drive me to work or they lose the use of their car for that day.

I need a reliable motorcycle.

Back to top

IP Logged

Gort

Ex Member

Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor
Reply #26 - 02/03/08 at 20:06:28

Paladin. wrote on 02/03/08 at 19:50:06:

Arthur wrote on 02/03/08 at 16:46:41:

....Which gives you more pride and satisfaction, an old British bike which exists because of your guts and mechanical ability, or a maintenance free, smooth Japanese bike which anyone can own and ride?

I'm not riding to stroke my ego/pride. I'm not out to prove how good or skillful I am. I'm not out to see how fast I can go. I use the Savage for my primary transportion. If it breaks either someone has to drive me to work or they lose the use of their car for that day.
o
I need a reliable motorcycle.

It is exactly this attitude that has resulted in the majority of cars on the road being gray, black or white generic econoboxes bought by all the mindless office drones and robots who want to conform and obey.

Back to top

IP Logged

txsizzler

YaBB Newbies

Offline

Its a real THUMP in
the pants!

Posts: 38
Portland/Corpus Christi, TX.
Gender: male

Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor
Reply #27 - 02/03/08 at 20:52:46

Arthur wrote on 02/03/08 at 20:06:28:

Paladin. wrote on 02/03/08 at 19:50:06:

Arthur wrote on 02/03/08 at 16:46:41:

....Which gives you more pride and satisfaction, an old British bike which exists because of your guts and mechanical ability, or a maintenance free, smooth Japanese bike which anyone can own and ride?

I'm not riding to stroke my ego/pride. I'm not out to prove how good or skillful I am. I'm not out to see how fast I can go. I use the Savage for my primary transportion. If it breaks either someone has to drive me to work or they lose the use of their car for that day.
o
I need a reliable motorcycle.

It is exactly this attitude that has resulted in the majority of cars on the road being gray, black or white generic econoboxes bought by all the mindless office drones and robots who want to conform and obey.

What a terrible comparison.. comparing someone who rides the Savage as their primary transportation, versus some "mindless office drones" who drive their "gray, black, or white generic econoboxes"... just curious.. how many Savages do YOU see out on the road these days?? How often do you find a bike this UNIQUE anywhere???

Save your comarison for a book of useless witticisims. Even those "mindless office drones" that drive their econoboxes, still take pride in their rides. I surely hope you do.

Ian

Back to top

"Life is like a bath; the longer you stay in it, the more wrinkled you get!" -Garfield

IP Logged

Gort

Ex Member

Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor
Reply #28 - 02/03/08 at 22:23:12

txsizzler wrote on 02/03/08 at 20:52:46:

Arthur wrote on 02/03/08 at 20:06:28:

Paladin. wrote on 02/03/08 at 19:50:06:

Arthur wrote on 02/03/08 at 16:46:41:

....Which gives you more pride and satisfaction, an old British bike which exists because of your
guts and mechanical ability, or a maintenance free, smooth Japanese bike which anyone can own and ride?

I'm not riding to stroke my ego/pride. I'm not out to prove how good or skillful I am. I'm not out to see how fast I can go. I use the Savage for my primary transportion. If it breaks either someone has to drive me to work or they lose the use of their car for that day.
o
I need a reliable motorcycle.

It is exactly this attitude that has resulted in the majority of cars on the road being gray, black or white generic econoboxes bought by all the mindless office drones and robots who want to conform and obey.

What a terrible comparison.. comparing someone who rides the Savage as their primary transportation, versus some "mindless office drones" who drive their "gray, black, or white generic econoboxes"... just curious.. how many Savages do YOU see out on the road these days?? How often do you find a bike this UNIQUE anywhere???

Save your comarison for a book of useless witticisims. Even those "mindless office drones" that drive their econoboxes, still take pride in their rides. I surely hope you do.

I did not compare a Savage rider to an econobox drone. I was responding to a suggestion that to choose a vehicle with no thought of "pride, ego or skill", is the very reason we see so many boring generic cars on the road. Too many people settle for what is easiest. It is too hard to keep a British bike operational, and its too difficult to control, so lets not do it at all and take the easier route? As for taking pride in my Savage, I do not take pride in someone elses creation. All I did was spend $1700.00 to buy it. It requires no effort to maintain or control. What is there for me to be proud of? However, if I owned an old British bike, it would continue exist only because of my ability to continually overcome its myriad of mechanical problems, and my ability to control its primitive and
physically demanding ride characteristics. I COULD take pride and satisfaction in that.

Ian

Back to top

IP Logged

firsts40

Senior Member

Offline

Proud PGR Member

Posts: 316
South Mississippi
Gender: male

Re: Savage reliability compared to Triunph/BSA/Nor
Reply #29 - 02/03/08 at 23:57:27

I have been reading all these comments about the Savage/LS650/S40, and do not see that they are under powered and have bad handling. My 06 S40 may only have around 9000 miles on it, but 3/4th of those miles are highway miles with the large cruises. I run 65-70+ all day with the HD Dyna Glides, Softails, dressers, Goldwings, etc, and it will hang with them, within reason of course. I can run 450 miles a day at 70 and get 62 MPG, and A LOT of respect from the big boys. As far as range goes, I have a longer range than some Harleys. We stop every 80-110 miles anyways to pick up more riders, and get gas if needed.

OH, one more thing........My S40 is 100% stock Grin

Back to top

Dana from Misissippi
Riding with Respect

IP Logged