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Compression ratio/head skim (Read 670 times)
KwakNut
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Compression ratio/head skim
01/19/08 at 21:03:57
 
Compression on these things seems waaay low - I'm feeling too lazy to reassemble my valvetrain and see how much valve to piston clearance I have, so can anybody tell me how much can be skimmed safely off the head without having to recess the pistons for valve clearance?
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Yonuh Adisi FSO
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Re: Compression ratio/head skim
Reply #1 - 01/19/08 at 21:37:01
 
I would actually like to know that as well. Next time I need to go into the engine, I would like to shave the head.
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Re: Compression ratio/head skim
Reply #2 - 01/19/08 at 22:24:41
 
Shaving the head moves your cam gear down towards the crankshaft.  What will amaze you is that the head shave amount hits cam chain "slack factor" with a 2x multiplier and it, by itself,  could take out most of your chain adjustment service life.

Horsepower is an elusive animal, more is nice but at what cost?

Check into nitrous if you want low cost serous hp -- low cost until you start seeing what nitrous stresses will do to your clutch and transmission that is.

Wink

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KwakNut
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Re: Compression ratio/head skim
Reply #3 - 01/20/08 at 04:33:08
 
Oldfeller2 wrote on 01/19/08 at 22:24:41:
Shaving the head moves your cam gear down towards the crankshaft.  What will amaze you is that the head shave amount hits cam chain "slack factor" with a 2x multiplier and it, by itself,  could take out most of your chain adjustment service life.
Horsepower is an elusive animal, more is nice but at what cost?
Check into nitrous if you want low cost serous hp -- low cost until you start seeing what nitrous stresses will do to your clutch and transmission that is.
Wink
I’ve been using nitrous on bikes and cars for 20 years and I’m yet to see any damage to clutch or transmission as a result – nitrous has an unfair reputation for damaging things which isn’t deserved at all.  Like anything else, you have to use it sensibly.  If you add a LOT of nitrous, only a fool leaves his clutch standard!

Several hundred pounds for a nitrous system isn’t cheap for a little extra torque compared with £20 to skim the head.  That aside, I don’t want to nitrous this bike – I could put some spare solenoids on it if I wanted to, but I just want a bit more grunt for normal daily use.

I just want the engine to run a little more efficiently, so I’ve ported the head, I’m using free flow air filter, modding the carb and I’m going to skim the head.  I looked at the possibility of welding up the combustion chamber, but that’s not an option of a 4-valve pent roof.
I’m aware that, as with all engines with chain driven overhead cams, there will be an effect on the cam chain and timing – easy answer to the timing is to modify the cam gearwheel so the cam timing can be dialled in.  As for the extra slack in the chain – that’s manageable.

Now, back to the question – can anybody answer how much material can come off the head before the pistons need pocketing for valve clearance?

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Re: Compression ratio/head skim
Reply #4 - 01/20/08 at 05:13:33
 
Can't answer your question,but maybe an alternative.Domed piston?
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klx650sm2002
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Re: Compression ratio/head skim
Reply #5 - 01/20/08 at 05:26:53
 
Has anyone skimmed the top of the barrel.
Clive W  Smiley
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Re: Compression ratio/head skim
Reply #6 - 01/20/08 at 06:01:55
 
klx650sm2002 wrote on 01/20/08 at 05:26:53:
Has anyone skimmed the top of the barrel.
Clive W  Smiley

Not that I know of...
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KwakNut
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Re: Compression ratio/head skim
Reply #7 - 01/20/08 at 06:04:53
 
Demin wrote on 01/20/08 at 05:13:33:
Can't answer your question,but maybe an alternative.Domed piston?
Yes, you can do that and up the compression just as much as you like, but that's going to cost a heap more than a quick skim and I've not seen catalogues full of companies offering high comp piston options for the LS650.  I'd probably go that route if there was a quality piston available at the right price.
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KwakNut
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Re: Compression ratio/head skim
Reply #8 - 01/20/08 at 06:10:56
 
Savage_Greg wrote on 01/20/08 at 06:01:55:
klx650sm2002 wrote on 01/20/08 at 05:26:53:
Has anyone skimmed the top of the barrel.
Clive W  Smiley

Not that I know of...
It's quite common on lots of bikes and cars to do it this way, and it makes sense.  
Take a minimum skim off the head just to clean up the mating surface, then take most of the material from the cylinder top - that way you reduce the squish area gap, which is good for mixture distribution.  
In the Savage motor there's 4mm between the top of the piston and the squish face of the head - way too much to really squeeze the gas and push it around the chamber, I'd rather it was about 1.5-2mm, but there's no way I could take 2-2.5mm from the barrel!  

Before anybody says try a longer rod . . . . . I'm not going to split the bottom end, so forget that!
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T Mack 1 - FSO
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Re: Compression ratio/head skim
Reply #9 - 01/20/08 at 08:29:58
 
KwakNut,
 Not sure if it helps in your search for power, here's a link to photo's I posted of the split lower end.  Fairly low tech engine.  Also has pict's of why I split it.  (to look for metal shavings & clean it....   Tongue )

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1185890273/0#0

T Mack
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Re: Compression ratio/head skim
Reply #10 - 01/20/08 at 16:07:16
 
Savage_Greg wrote on 01/20/08 at 06:01:55:
klx650sm2002 wrote on 01/20/08 at 05:26:53:
Has anyone skimmed the top of the barrel.
Clive W  Smiley

Not that I know of...



Might want to ask Lancer on that one......   Wink  I think he is lurking lately...  Wink
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Re: Compression ratio/head skim
Reply #11 - 01/20/08 at 16:49:12
 
smokin_blue wrote on 01/20/08 at 16:07:16:
....  I think he is lurking lately...  Wink


I'm quite sure he's made a list and is checking it twice
for nary a savagite will sleep tonight waiting for a special cam chain,
their sidewalks are shoveled and the mail box de-iced,
their wrenches are laid out, and they hope they are not vain,
their head and clutch covers are all shiney and clean,
Some are glad they sprung for a performance cam,
While some wish they could and others say I can barely hang on now,
But I'm sure Lancer would say 'to each his own, and to all a super chain'!
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Compression ratio/head skim
Reply #12 - 01/21/08 at 00:06:22
 
There wqs talk of a piston group buy. I dont know if it died, happened or is pending.
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klx650sm2002
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Re: Compression ratio/head skim
Reply #13 - 01/21/08 at 02:26:07
 
8.5:1 - 9.5:1 should give 3.2% more torque and 8.5:1 - 10.5:1 should give 6% more torque.
Clive W  Smiley
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LANCER
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Re: Compression ratio/head skim
Reply #14 - 01/21/08 at 07:53:32
 
verslagen1 wrote on 01/20/08 at 16:49:12:
smokin_blue wrote on 01/20/08 at 16:07:16:
....  I think he is lurking lately...  Wink


I'm quite sure he's made a list and is checking it twice
for nary a savagite will sleep tonight waiting for a special cam chain,
their sidewalks are shoveled and the mail box de-iced,
their wrenches are laid out, and they hope they are not vain,
their head and clutch covers are all shiney and clean,
Some are glad they sprung for a performance cam,
While some wish they could and others say I can barely hang on now,
But I'm sure Lancer would say 'to each his own, and to all a super chain'!



HO HO HO  .......  MERRY CAM CHAINS  .......  HO HO HO
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