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Form-a-Gasket (Read 207 times)
eanon
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Form-a-Gasket
01/11/08 at 14:35:45
 
Can this stuff be used for any/all gaskets in the bike?  If not, which gaskets can/can't be done with it?  Thanks
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Red '97, cone filter, 150 main, 52.5 Pilot, half spacer, Screaming Eagle turnout, 17/43 chain drive, shield, de-badged, 4" forward control extensions. Gettin' there.
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Re: Form-a-Gasket
Reply #1 - 01/11/08 at 14:43:58
 
Which stuff?  There's quite a few variety's.

I tried the ultra grey instead of the paper clutch cover gasket and it didn't work.  But I also didn't let it sit overnight to cure either.
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grandpa
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Re: Form-a-Gasket
Reply #2 - 01/11/08 at 15:20:13
 
Theory is that properly applied with the proper heat range, you should be able to throw the gaskets away. Personally, I like the assurance of a gasket. I am also old school and still use Permatex Hi-Tack. The can with the brush in the cap of the purple stringy mess. It's messy but it still works great for everything. The secret to the silicones is a clean oil free surface. Clean metal surface, no left over old gasket and wiping it down with brake cleaner or mild paint thinner. Hard to do all of that in some applications.
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Blue '06, seat mod, K&N drop-in filter, desnorkeled, 55 pilot, 152.5 main, 1/3 spacer, dyna muff, factory bug shield, 11.5 Progressive rear shocks, debadged, fork boots, 110/90-19, 140/90-15
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High_Plains_Thumpr
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Re: Form-a-Gasket
Reply #3 - 01/12/08 at 06:56:35
 
I have used Permatex Ultra Gray with success.  As with any gasket cement / sealant, one must keep the surfaces clean.  I use Acetone or lacquer thinner to remove any traces of oil.  When tightening, don't make it so tight that all of it squeezes out.  Let it cure, then torque the assembly down.

Thing I have grown to like about the gasketless systems is that they do not seep like the gasketed ones.  It is just unconventional, if you (like me) have used the standard gaskets for many years.

Since, my 1987 Savage developed a weep in the head area several years later.  Over time it leaves a slight mess on the front of the cylinder jug, but nothing like the classic head plug leak.  I'll have to troubleshoot it.  I am not losing oil where I must constantly replenish it and there are no drips on the pavement where I park it.  It is just that I end up cleaning again after a couple months.

Next time I will replace all the copper and neoprene washers in the head area.  Plus I will install a new head bolt access plug, since it has been several years.

One thing I did do (because I had no other guidance but the '86-'88 Clymers manual) was put Ultra Gray on the head plug.

[OT] Having spent the past two years living near the ocean, salt spray and continuous rain means a good tear down and repainting.  Now I can understand why others replace galvanized bolts with stainless.  Even stainless will rust near the ocean.    Tongue

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Paladin.
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Re: Form-a-Gasket
Reply #4 - 01/12/08 at 07:36:54
 
eanon wrote on 01/11/08 at 14:35:45:
Can this stuff be used for any/all gaskets in the bike?  If not, which gaskets can/can't be done with it?  Thanks
I've always figured that the thickness of the gasket has been engineered into the design.  If I am doing critical work I'll coat both sides of the gasket with Permatex part number 80017 "Aviation Form-a-Gasket".  We used this when we replaced the waterpump on the LTD, a bit over five years ago.  The container has form-a-gasket dribbled on it.  After five years exposure to air it is still soft and tacky.

I figure anything designed for an air-cooled aircraft engine is good enough for my air cooled bike.


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Savage_Greg
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Re: Form-a-Gasket
Reply #5 - 01/12/08 at 08:03:11
 
I echo what others have said.  The gray stuff can leak, especially if not applied correctly.  Seems best suited for non-critical applications where a "dust" seal is needed rather that a "liquid" seal.  The red high temp RTV sealer is better for tight, THIN seals of a moderate heat range such as the headcover...

...and experience has taught me that it's better to use the manufacturer's paper gasket when recommended because those are jobs that you don't do very often...and short cuts just increase their frequency Tongue

PS - in another topic we discussed the gray stuff.  It seems that there are 2 kinds.  One tends to get brittle and hard.  The other remains flexible.
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eanon
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Re: Form-a-Gasket
Reply #6 - 01/12/08 at 10:11:40
 
Which one should I use for the exhaust header gasket?  I'm getting ready to check my cam chain and tensioner...
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Red '97, cone filter, 150 main, 52.5 Pilot, half spacer, Screaming Eagle turnout, 17/43 chain drive, shield, de-badged, 4" forward control extensions. Gettin' there.
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Yonuh Adisi FSO
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Re: Form-a-Gasket
Reply #7 - 01/12/08 at 10:13:46
 
If your talking about where the header goes into the head, that would be best with a new crush gasket.
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Check out Flight of Destiny http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H9130XC
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Re: Form-a-Gasket
Reply #8 - 01/12/08 at 10:25:27
 
eanon wrote on 01/12/08 at 10:11:40:
Which one should I use for the exhaust header gasket?  I'm getting ready to check my cam chain and tensioner...


For exhaust, you want Permatex Ultra Copper 101BR, rated to 700 degrees. Give it plenty of time to cure before running your engine.



The other Form-a-Gasket products will work in place of gaskets but I think the Yamabond products from your cycle dealer are better. If you use Form-a-Gasket on an ignition cover, make sure it's "sensor safe". The others can attack ignition parts.
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High_Plains_Thumpr
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Re: Form-a-Gasket
Reply #9 - 01/12/08 at 11:18:31
 
Out of curiosity, I went to the manufacturer's site at http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/automotive_gasketing.htm

Here is what I found out from the Technical Data Sheets (TDS).  I noticed some of the descriptions have been revised from what they were 4 years ago.

Permatex Ultra Grey Gasket Maker.  Will seal under high pressure, torque down immediately after application.  Used is close bolt spaced covers.

Permatex HI-Temp Red RTV. Silicone Gasket.  Very flexible, requires adequate film thickness to function (don't torque down excessively until set.)

MotoSeal 1 Ultimate Gasket Maker Grey.  Excellent gap filling properties, designed for use on motorcycles, personal watercrafts, snowmobiles and all-terrain vehicles. MotoSeal 1 resists high temperatures and performs well in a gasoline environment

Typical uses: • Cylinder head top covers • Crank case halves • Timing chain cases • Cam covers • Center and end covers (transmissions) • Exhaust manifold seals • Cylinder case halves • Side covers • Clutch housings.

IMHO, Ultra Grey worked fine on the valve cover, but poorly on the head plug (lack of flexibility).  My next purchase will be the MotoSeal.  Sounds like it might be similar to Yamabond, no?  Smiley

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eanon
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Re: Form-a-Gasket
Reply #10 - 01/12/08 at 11:37:34
 
Awesome.  Thanks for all the info.  One more ? before I dive in, when using form-a-gasket, do I still need to apply some sort of sealant around the oil path?  If so, what?  Thanks again.
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Red '97, cone filter, 150 main, 52.5 Pilot, half spacer, Screaming Eagle turnout, 17/43 chain drive, shield, de-badged, 4" forward control extensions. Gettin' there.
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Digger
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Re: Form-a-Gasket
Reply #11 - 07/13/08 at 21:26:42
 
Paladin. wrote on 01/12/08 at 07:36:54:
.......If I am doing critical work I'll coat both sides of the gasket with Permatex part number 80017 "Aviation Form-a-Gasket".  We used this when we replaced the waterpump on the LTD, a bit over five years ago.  The container has form-a-gasket dribbled on it.  After five years exposure to air it is still soft and tacky.


Paladin,

Is that stuff easy to remove when it is time to clean it off in preparation for another installation?
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Paladin.
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Re: Form-a-Gasket
Reply #12 - 07/14/08 at 00:44:51
 
I haven't taken anything apart yet.
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Re: Form-a-Gasket
Reply #13 - 07/16/08 at 10:43:57
 
Just curious why I haven't read anything about "the right stuff" from permatex (forgive me if I should have researched more).  My dad's a mechanic and owns his own shop..he has always taught me this was the best stuff by far to make gaskets and I believe this is all he uses. I've used this on pretty much every gasket I've had to make on my truck with no problem ever. I have now also used it on every part I've reassembled on my Savage. This stuff is quite a bit more expensive than all the others but...any reason I shouldn't be using this on the bike?
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96 Bobber - Screamin Eagle, header wrap, K+N cone filter, jetted, straight bar w/1.5" risers, solo seat, Ed. L fwd ctrls, custom rear fender, TKat, Metallic charcoal and polished all over.
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