SuzukiSavage.com - EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison

Savage_Rob

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

Mechanically
Inclined Amateur

Posts: 6972
Texas (Dallas area)
Gender: male

Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison
Reply #15 - 01/07/08 at 13:32:38

I can probably find a place to mic mine. I haven't looked. I don't know what good that'd do though. You can't compare wear vs usage in terms or either time or mileage as they really have little to do with braking. You'd almost need to count the hours of use in braking, the speed of the rotor during the braking, and even account for pressure applied. Heck, even ambient temperature probably plays a role in it to some degree.

Back to top

IP Logged

Oldfeller--FSO

Serious Thumper
ModSquad

Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12670
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male

Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison
Reply #16 - 01/08/08 at 04:02:44

We can state one equivalent thing that is generic enough to carry some meaning.

"I wore out a set of SBS pads using my driving style and it took 0.00xx off the EBC rotor during a one set of pads service life."

Reelthing does the same with a set of EBCs. Will it be absolute, no. Will it be indicative, yes.

Right now all I have is an "indication" that SBS wears a relatively rougher surface finish onto a rotor and wears a rotor relatively "more deeply" than stock Suzuki pads do.

Back to top

Former Savage Owner

IP Logged

Savage_Rob

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

Mechanically
Inclined Amateur

Posts: 6972
Texas (Dallas area)
Gender: male

Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison
Reply #17 - 01/08/08 at 04:51:03

Oldfeller--FSO wrote on 01/08/08 at 04:02:44:

We can state one equivalent thing that is generic enough to carry some meaning.

"I wore out a set of SBS pads using my driving style and it took 0.00xx off the EBC rotor during a one set of pads service life."

Reelthing does the same with a set of EBCs. Will it be absolute, no. Will it be indicative, yes.

Of what will it be indicative? Driving styles, ride time, and circumstances will not be identical, nor will they even be necessarily similar. If we mounted two rotors on a spindle, each with its own set of pads and put them through a set amount of work and then compared, it would be valid. This isn't anywhere near controlled though. One set of pads may perform three times more the stopping than the other while wearing the rotor only twice as much. All this comparison would show is that it wore the rotor twice as much during its lifetime. It would not indicate that it had performed three times the work with a single set of pads and only twice the wear in the rotor. I'll try to mic my rotor this weekend and post the results but I think it's in vain because this comparison basically has no way of determining how much work was done to cause a given amount of wear on either the pads or the rotor.

Back to top

IP Logged

Oldfeller--FSO

Serious Thumper
ModSquad

Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12670
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male

Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison
Reply #18 - 01/09/08 at 03:52:09

The only test that would meet your criteria is to run one pad of each type on a new rotor and measure the depth of wear on each side independently using a depth gage with the gage's shoe sitting on the unworn lip area and across to the machined area to the inside.

Remaining variable would be the difference in actuation force and retraction between puck side and stationary leg side.

Back to top

Former Savage Owner

IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison Reply #19 - 01/09/08 at 07:27:40 Anybody know what the rotor is made of?
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

Oldfeller--FSO

Serious Thumper
ModSquad

Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12670
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male

Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison
Reply #20 - 01/10/08 at 03:20:33

Suzuki is made from stainless steel, can't speak for the EBC. Form of the rotor is a simple piece of de-stressed flat plate that has been laser cut into the rotor shape. Such parts would cost nowhere near $179 to make. A smart fellow could contact fabrication houses for quotes and make us up a batch of "better grade material" rotors for less than $100.

Most commonly used rotor stainless is A1S1 420 stainless steel plate, this is a dirt common form of stainless that is available anywhere.

One vendor's "esotric stainless" is SVS420JZ

If it helped keep the price down, 420 stainless plate would not bother me in the least.

Back to top

« Last Edit: 01/10/08 at 14:05:29 by Oldfeller--FSO »

Former Savage Owner

IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison Reply #21 - 01/10/08 at 07:26:39 Unless it's 400 series SS which is magnetic and rusts, it's not SS. Most auto places say grey iron. And yes, my intention is to cut a custom disk. How many? I don't know. I'm thinking about " Su3uki Sabage . Com " as the cut out.
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

Oldfeller--FSO

Serious Thumper
ModSquad

Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12670
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male

Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison
Reply #22 - 01/10/08 at 13:39:06

That's why I said "better than normal" material -- a truly non-rusting stainless would be very nice, now wouldn't it? Something with some hard to it, maybe some warp resistance. Maybe a little thicker, too.

Most folks don't realize that stainless can rust a bit if you give it some granules of rusting material to get the process going. Scouring a stainless steel sink with steel wool is an excellent example of what can happen when you embed rusting steel on to a stainless surface.

There may be some ferrous compounds in the brake pad material because the rust I see starting is only on the laser cut "flat" surfaces on my rotor.

Back to top

Former Savage Owner

IP Logged

verslagen1

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28884
L.A. California
Gender: male

Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison
Reply #23 - 01/10/08 at 14:23:57

From Galfer:

Laser cut (not stamped) to assure no stress to the material
Made of a unique high carbon content steel (420ss) for higher friction
Pre-heat treated so that the rotor is less likely to warp
Double, parallel disc grinded and diamond finished for perfect flatness

Most sites said High carbon steel vs. low carbon OEM disks... That's like selecting a grain of rice from a barrel... I want the white one there.

And 420 in my line of work is medium to low carbon steel.

Back to top

Versey's Place
Tech Section Index

IP Logged

Savage_Rob Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Mechanically Inclined Amateur Posts: 6972 Texas (Dallas area) Gender:	Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison Reply #24 - 01/14/08 at 10:26:47 The EBC rotor is 0.198" at the area untouched by the pads.
Back to top	1998\|MAC muffler\|ceramic coated header\|K&N air filter\|Amal Mk2 carb\|Odyssey battery\|iridium plug\|NC windshield\|Dunlop 491s\|Superbrace\|EBC brake rotor\|12.5" Progressive shocks\|Kuryakyn ISO grips IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison Reply #25 - 01/18/08 at 19:13:26 Something like this?
Back to top	New_Disk.jpg Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

Oldfeller2 Senior Member Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 323 Gender:	Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison Reply #26 - 01/18/08 at 21:30:09 That's the general idea. Are there any more flowing fonts styles that would look better without getting all sissy looking? All them sharp angles aren't good for stress risers, you know -- cracks like to form in the corners.
Back to top	IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison Reply #27 - 01/18/08 at 21:41:06 I know what you mean. But the OEM disk has some fairly thin areas. And this would have a lot more beefy areas. So I don't think it would matter.
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

Oldfeller--FSO

Serious Thumper
ModSquad

Offline

Hobby is now
"concentrated
neuropany"

Posts: 12670
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: male

Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison
Reply #28 - 01/21/08 at 06:35:27

Having done the EBC braking comparisons (and having recovered the braking ability to mildly skid the stock IRC front tire again) I am ready to switch rubber as the old tire is just about shot.

What you see below is my experiment for a true long mileage tire, an old style hard rubber construction Metzler rip off that was developed as a touring tire for BMW. The type C287 tire is still made by Ching Shen in our front tire size (but the tire mold itself is so old it is marked 3.50x19 on the side wall). It is still sold by BikeBandit for $30 a tire.
(very reasonably priced for a high mileage design)

(Does the boy run his tires hard and does he do approach braking when fully heeled over in a turn or what? Note -- his front tire is more worn at the sides than on the top of the crown)

Back to top

DSCF0018_Medium.JPG

« Last Edit: 01/26/08 at 13:35:13 by Oldfeller--FSO »

Former Savage Owner

IP Logged

Oldfeller--FSO Serious Thumper ModSquad Offline Hobby is now "concentrated neuropany" Posts: 12670 Fayetteville, NC Gender:	Re: EBC vs SBS brake pads -- comparison Reply #29 - 01/26/08 at 13:55:45 Here are some pics of front and rear tire -- all are high mileage hard rubber tires.
Back to top	DSCF0001_Medium.JPG Former Savage Owner IP Logged