SuzukiSavage.com - Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine

skoeter

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Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine
11/29/07 at 03:47:54

Perhaps a topic on this already but I searcher the technics corner and tried the search.... all I got was Day too small - -711917 > -2485

I have an '86 savage and found a 5 gearbox on Ebay so what first crosses my mind is Great let's change the 4 gear for 5 gear!!
Has this been done before and what to be aware of (would I run into more then changing gear parts...)
Anyone that has experience in this...
Thanx 8)

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German_Leo

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Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage
Reply #1 - 11/29/07 at 04:37:20

Hi skoeter,

if you change the engine you must change your CDI because the 86 CDI dosn't work with the 96 (and upper) Generator (LIMA). The cylinder and the head can changed between the bilding years. So, if you can get the CDI (maybe incl. the complete wiring harness) you can start with the project. Good luck!

Ciao Leo

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skoeter YaBB Newbies Offline '62 Born on '86 Savage Posts: 36 Netherlands Schiedam Gender:	Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage Reply #2 - 11/29/07 at 05:05:44 I do not want to change the entire engine, just the gearbox.... But great tip if ever I want to change engine
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T Mack 1 - FSO

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Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine
Reply #3 - 11/29/07 at 06:50:42

So, couple of things you need to investigate.

First is whether the crankcase part numbers are the same for the 86 as the newer bikes with 5 spd's. If the crankcase halves are the same PN then it can be done.

Second, you need to see what else is different. I would think all of the internal shifting componets are.

See parts micorfisches at:

www.ronayers.com
see 1986 LS650 at:
http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/frames.cfm?man=su&groupid=7060&parent=7050

Also many local shops have links too, here's my local shop. The link setup to ask you for the year then you need to find the LS650 :
http://www.blackmanscycle.com/fiche_select.asp?vcc=Motorcycles&mfg=Suzuki

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thumperclone Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline PGR rider riding with respect Posts: 6049 Grand Junction Colorado Gender:	Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Reply #4 - 11/29/07 at 07:07:25 4 speed and 5 have almost same final drive ratio,chain conversion for better top end..
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skoeter

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Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine
Reply #5 - 11/29/07 at 07:26:46

I got myself the crankcase where the gearbox originally was in so if I find it can not be done with what I have.... I have the original where the parts came out. I also got the shaft comp/gear shift just incase they're different too
What also needs to be modified to 5 gear is the primary transmission.....
Information thanx to Kropatchek by email

Chain conversion?? .... to me all this is about having a 5 gear '86 savage without changing a complete engine... 8)

Will a change of primary transmission make other things to be changed?? Roll Eyes

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Savage_Greg

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Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine
Reply #6 - 11/29/07 at 08:09:39

Time for cheap plug Tongue

IF you had The Savage Companion Photo CD, you would possess some photos that were submitted by Kropatchek. They show the inside crankcase halves for the 5 speed model.

Noted on those photos are the fact that the shift drums between the 4-5 speed models are different. The 4 speed had 1 shift fork whereas the 5 speed has 2 shift forks. Those forks are supported (of course) by bosses that are cast into the crankcase halves...

Therefore, the countershaft, drive shaft, shift drum, shift forks, shift mechanism, crankcase halves, primary drives AND alternator (German_Leo) are ALL different. Don't know about the oil pump drive Tongue

The possibility that I imagine would be to see if the '86 alternator stator and pickup will fit the later model rotor and then just change over the top end with head, cylinder, and piston etc...

BTW - anyone know if the cam drive and driven gears are the same? Need to check Ron Ayers maybe.

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skoeter

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Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine
Reply #7 - 11/29/07 at 08:48:19

Thanx Savage_Greg, you mean the pic in this topic?? http://www.suzukisavage.nl/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=75.html added by Kropatchek...
In same topic also pics of the 'new' gear parts I have comming in. All parts are from 1 bike!!
Now my technical english is as good as your dutch, a bit better even Grin

,can you specify again what you think I also need to change besides what already is shown in that topic.....

Now most of the parts you mentioned are different (alternator = Dynamo dutch) does it need to be changed??

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Reply #8 - 11/29/07 at 10:33:06 I'd be interested in knowing if the 5th gear ratio can be improved by swapping out 5th with a reversed set of 3rd. Is it possible?
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skoeter

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Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine
Reply #9 - 11/29/07 at 10:56:53

Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:11:

Therefore, the countershaft, drive shaft, shift drum, shift forks, shift mechanism, crankcase halves, primary drives AND alternator (German_Leo) are ALL different. Don't know about the oil pump drive Tongue

The possibility that I imagine would be to see if the '86 alternator stator and pickup will fit the later model rotor and then just change over the top end with head, cylinder, and piston etc...

Sometimes need to read a few time because of a language difference we have....

Think you mean to say that besides the primary drives (thanx, I named it primary transmission because the word drives failed me) the alternator will not fit in the end....

Besides 'The Savage Companion Photo CD' you also have a CD I heard on the dutch forum. What does it include?? The photo's by Kropatchek are around my corner, he lives 20-25 miles from here... As stated he suggested the primairy drives and crankcase issue...

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Savage_Greg

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Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine
Reply #10 - 11/29/07 at 12:17:43

skoeter wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:11:

Sometimes need to read a few time because of a language difference we have....

Think you mean to say that besides the primary drives (thanx, I named it primary transmission because the word drives failed me) the alternator will not fit in the end....

Besides 'The Savage Companion Photo CD' you also have a CD I heard on the dutch forum. What does it include?? The photo's by Kropatchek are around my corner, he lives 20-25 miles from here... As stated he suggested the primairy drives and crankcase issue...

Hey, you have my respect because you can read English and write on this forum. I'm not that good.

The alternator is on the left side and the primary drive gears are on the right. The primary drive gears are different by 1 tooth on each gear from '86 to '96.

You can get the transmission photos from Henk, but there is too much on my CD to really explain here. You should visit my web site for more info.

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skoeter

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Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine
Reply #11 - 11/29/07 at 21:49:39

Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:11:

Hey, you have my respect because you can read English and write on this forum. I'm not that good.

We can not escape from english.... Movie, TV, Radio... where ever one goes english is around.... Should frequently dig in microfishes for the technical side... and now you know Alternator is Dynamo in dutch. and Primary is primair Handy to know, even when you visit Belgium Grin

Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:11:

You can get the transmission photos from Henk, but there is too much on my CD to really explain here. You should visit my web site for more info.

I will............ guess I gotta hit Santa now

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thumperclone Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline PGR rider riding with respect Posts: 6049 Grand Junction Colorado Gender:	Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Reply #12 - 11/29/07 at 22:31:23 [quote author=skoeter link=board=RubberSideDown;num=1196336874;start=0#11 date=11/29/07 at 21:49:39] when you visit Belgium beer is beer?
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skoeter YaBB Newbies Offline '62 Born on '86 Savage Posts: 36 Netherlands Schiedam Gender:	Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Reply #13 - 11/29/07 at 22:55:07 If you want to get yourself in trouble.... try and order 'beer' and a bear is what you get.... ordering 'bier' will be safer.... and tastier
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Dave48 Full Member Offline Try owt once... Posts: 107 Nottingham, UK Gender:	Re: Howto build 5 gear in '86 Savage engine Reply #14 - 11/30/07 at 03:45:13 Learning beer is bier is a small price to pay for the finest and best ALES in any language anywhere I have drunk the stuff!
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