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Front Fork Oil (Read 77 times)
Gulfstream
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Front Fork Oil
10/25/07 at 10:49:06
 
I've got a bunch of maintenance to do on the wife's Savage this weekend. She has a fork seal leaking so I've got two new seals. I've read that quite a few of you are running ATF in lieu of regular fork oil. My question is, which would be better Dexron or Type F? I know that the stock oil is a 15w but I would like to firm up the compression/rebound just a tad with perhaps a 20w oil. Does anyone know the viscosity of the 2 before mentioned fluids? Has anyone had issues using the ATF's?
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Re: Front Fork Oil
Reply #1 - 10/25/07 at 11:15:12
 
WD wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:
My fork oil looked like old motor oil. Exactly like the 1974ish Pennzoil my grandfather used as storage oil in what is now my 1949 Dodge truck. Kind of a yellowish blue with bits of metal dust and carbon chunks, a few larger metal chips, and man, what a smell...

I pulled the forks, removed the springs and let the forks sit upside down over a drainpan. Over night.

Refilled the forks with Dexron 2 ATF. Improved feel, very smooth action, no more serious rain groove tracking. And, the minor seal leak went away.

Still wishing I had done a flush with acetone, MEK or something similar though...
-WD

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Re: Front Fork Oil
Reply #2 - 10/25/07 at 11:17:22
 
WD wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:09:
I let mine drain overnight because the oil was really contaminated. A lot of fine particulate matter in it. The more of that that came out, the longer the fork assembly will last. Mine also had what looked like manufacturing debris in the oil, some aluminum dust and a couple steel chips.

According to the lubricants rep that serviced our shop, Dexron ATF and 15 weight fork oil are the exact same thing. Fork oil just costs more. He did caution against using Type F ATF or the older Chrysler ATF, as they will dissolve the lower oil seals (incompatible rubber formula).

With both the book and the rep saying ATF is acceptable, I figured it was worth a try. Mine will be getting a springer or girder front end in the next couple years anyway. It will be interesting to see how the forks hold up with an ATF fill versus the factory fork oil. For the time being, they are working better than new.
-WD

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Re: Front Fork Oil
Reply #3 - 10/25/07 at 11:20:30
 
franch wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:09:
yes to the handlebars otherwise you won't have room to remove the top fork bolts, but you can leave the cables attached and just hang the whole arrangment from the ceiling out of the way. just unscrew the caliper but leave the brake line attached and hang that too. use a tie wrap or wire so you don't put stress on the brake hose.
i used 30 weight ATF fluid in the forks and while it's stiffer for sure the bike handles high winds way better.

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Re: Front Fork Oil
Reply #4 - 10/25/07 at 11:22:09
 
franch wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:04:
If you have a battery  or air impact wrench  you can likely loosen the bottom fork bolts by compressing the shocks while you loosen ,this provides resistance.

The oil seal stopper that fits in the groove above the seal is really a piece of wire open at one end and so can be pried out carefull like without denting the inner top of the slider (lower fork tube).

don't under any circumstances try to separate upper & lower tubes without removing this first.

a piece of 1.5 " diameter white schedule 40 pvc works perfectly to push the oil seal into it's seat.
$1.79 for a 2 ft length at H.D.

you may also need this pvc to drive home the bushing that sits below the washer that sits below the oil seal.
simply place the washer between the bushing and pvc pipe and rap the pipe.

when putting the fork tubes back on make sure you route the clutch, throttle cable etc. between the forks .

27mm fork cap bolts, 8mm long allen for bottom
fork bolts

it's easier than it sounds.

if you're stuck P.M. me.

it's 4/30/07 as i write this,having finished putting her together this morning.
I used ATF type F and she rode great today !
Certainly a stiffer feel with the 30 weight type F; but interestingly enough I was riding through some good 30mph gusts  and it was decidedly easier to deal with the wind.

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Re: Front Fork Oil
Reply #5 - 10/25/07 at 11:23:27
 
WD wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:04:
Mine has been on the road for 8 years with leaking seals. I went to change them today, and found them to be rusted in place. The retainer rings are so rotten that they lost any spring tension.

I refilled the tubes, added fork gaiters to minimize the mess, and said good enough. In total, in 8 years, the forks lost MAYBE an ounce of oil, maybe.

The upper seal is NOT a 2 hour remove and replace. Once the forks are dropped and the dust caps and retainer rings pulled, it takes 10 minutes. IF they will come out. Pulling the forks takes 10-15 minutes, installing them takes 15-30. Depends on whether you pull the fender and wheel (I don't, just the caliper). Push the seal in with a piece of pipe.

If you use fork oil, the book says 15 weight. I prefer 20 weight, but used high mileage Mercon-spec ATF, Wal-mart brand. Same stuff I use in the fuel (rust inhibitor and slide lube). Motor oil works just as well (15W40 is spot on).
-WD

If you take it to the dealer, make sure you get kissed after you get screwed..

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Re: Front Fork Oil
Reply #6 - 10/25/07 at 11:25:02
 
sparkett wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
The book says SAE 15 or dextron atf  441 cc (14.91 us oz)fill to 75mm (2.95 in.) thats with the spring out.

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Re: Front Fork Oil
Reply #7 - 10/25/07 at 11:42:37
 
Why dont you use regular fork oil, You can get any weight you want.
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Re: Front Fork Oil
Reply #8 - 10/25/07 at 15:06:06
 
bill67 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:
Why dont you use regular fork oil, You can get any weight you want.

Well, to get regular fork oil I would have to drive across town to the closest bike shop, I can get the ATF anywhere. I also like ATF's long term stability...most transmissions have a 100K drain and replace schedule, regular oils in a tranny are usually 50K. Oh yeah, and ATF is way cheaper than fork oil...
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Re: Front Fork Oil
Reply #9 - 10/25/07 at 22:04:11
 
bill67 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:
Why dont you use regular fork oil, You can get any weight you want.

I AGREE!

My only question is...if you only change the fork oil every few years or decades, then why the heck is everyone so darned cheap about it?

Come on.  You wanna talk about specs on ATF that is comparable with fork oil?  Geez.  Got a crystal ball too?  

Maybe you wouldn't be changing fork seals if someone used the correct fluid last time.  But then I guess it will be the next owners problem, right?

See my topic.  My money is where my mouth is.  $10 per quart.  Synthetic 15W.  You only need 1 quart for both of the forks on the Savage40.

Gee, I bet that some will drive across town for a Happy Meal though...

Bunch of Rookies!

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Re: Front Fork Oil
Reply #10 - 10/26/07 at 16:09:42
 
Ok, I relent. After doing some research I've discovered that the ATF is way to thin for my needs. I had the wife stop by a shop on her way home and she picked up a litre of Motul 15w synthetic fork oil. Now I'm having a heck of a time getting the bolt out of the bottom of the slider to disassemble the fork. The broom handle I'm using keeps twisting in the metering rod when I apply torque to the allen bolt. My Harley came apart much easier. I'll try it again after dinner.
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Re: Front Fork Oil
Reply #11 - 10/26/07 at 16:54:40
 
   I use Klotz 10 weight in my LC 1500.I am going to use Klotz 15 in my s40. $13.50 per quart . Its worth it you have less sticksion in the forks
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Re: Front Fork Oil
Reply #12 - 10/27/07 at 05:49:22
 
Gulfstream wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:
Ok, I relent. After doing some research I've discovered that the ATF is way to thin for my needs. I had the wife stop by a shop on her way home and she picked up a litre of Motul 15w synthetic fork oil. Now I'm having a heck of a time getting the bolt out of the bottom of the slider to disassemble the fork. The broom handle I'm using keeps twisting in the metering rod when I apply torque to the allen bolt. My Harley came apart much easier. I'll try it again after dinner.


Very good.  

If you read the post by Dr_Jim (somewhere), he mentions loosening that slider bolt by leaving the fork springs in there.  You basically leave the forks installed in the steering stem until you loosen that bolt.

Of course, you're way past that point now.

Good choice anyway.  The Savage deserves the same love as your Harley Tongue
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Re: Front Fork Oil
Reply #13 - 10/27/07 at 19:21:55
 
Got everything finished today, replaced both fork seals and changed the fork oil (15w Motul). Pulled the head cover and fixed the oil plug leak, the old one was very loose and the new one is the "new style" and fits much snugger...a little Permatex and I'm sure it's sealed now. It's reassembled and the wife and I were ready for a nice Sunday ride tomorrow, the weather's suppose to be beautiful...then the phone rings, my company needs me to be in Greensboro, NC in the morning, 0530 flight out...oh well, we'll have to make that ride later!
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Re: Front Fork Oil
Reply #14 - 10/28/07 at 06:45:41
 
Gulfstream wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:
Got everything finished today, replaced both fork seals and changed the fork oil (15w Motul). Pulled the head cover and fixed the oil plug leak, the old one was very loose and the new one is the "new style" and fits much snugger...a little Permatex and I'm sure it's sealed now. It's reassembled and the wife and I were ready for a nice Sunday ride tomorrow, the weather's suppose to be beautiful...then the phone rings, my company needs me to be in Greensboro, NC in the morning, 0530 flight out...oh well, we'll have to make that ride later!

Well no doubt that you're on that flight right now.  I remember that service related crap with last minute travel plans.

The spouse and I are gonna ride today, so we'll be out there for ya Tongue
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