SuzukiSavage.com - Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check

Dr_Jim Ex Member	Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check 10/07/07 at 23:53:58 -
Back to top	« Last Edit: 12/23/07 at 11:22:03 by Dr_Jim » IP Logged

Reelthing

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

Fish or ride that is
the question

Posts: 5397
Houston,Tx
Gender: male

Re: Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check
Reply #1 - 10/08/07 at 06:38:59

if the intakes were to tight by a good bit - like not on the seat after it warms up - it may very well have scored the seat and the intake valve or perhaps best case just build up - if you have the tools a leak down test might confirm - but on the other hand - since it's been mistreated as you describe - it's also unlikely that clean oil and enough of it was kept in there - so the chain is likely worn a great deal - I'd pull the head and the right side cover.

Back to top

IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28905 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check Reply #2 - 10/08/07 at 07:12:17 If the chain jumpped, in my thinking (not experience) it would retard the cam. Now it the chain were slack, weather it jumped or not, the timing could float to be advanced. And you'd hear alot of scraping for sure. There have been reports of cam chain problems as early as 8k.
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

Savage_Greg

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

Don't go around your
ass to reach your
elbow...

Posts: 7844
SW Washington State
Gender: male

Re: Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check
Reply #3 - 10/08/07 at 09:26:53

In my thinking the chain would not stretch enough to change the timing that severely, and I don't believe there is nearly enough room above the cam gear for the chain to physically come off the teeth...I don't think there is anyway....

However, since you said that initially the valves were adjusted too tight, I suppose it is possible. I assume that you rotated the crank to the timing mark on the left side before adjusting. What if that was misinterpreted as being too tight when in truth the cam lobes weren't actually turned far enough to have the valves fully closed? That would "seem" too tight...and that would mean that now they are really loose and retarded, too.

I'd pull the headcover and check the timing with the horizontal lines on the cam gear.

Oh yeah, from my CD...you can see too little horizontal arrows at the cam shaft marks Tongue

Back to top

IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check Reply #4 - 10/08/07 at 12:16:03 I would pop the plug & left side cover plate, pull valve covers & do a valve check, If you have it at TDC & then move the crank & prove that at TDC isnt the greatest clearance between valves & rockers, then the rockers are oput of time to the crank, IE, cam chain slipped.
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged

Dr_Jim Ex Member	Re: Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check Reply #5 - 10/08/07 at 20:32:20 -
Back to top	« Last Edit: 12/23/07 at 11:21:22 by Dr_Jim » IP Logged

Yonuh Adisi FSO

Serious Thumper

Offline

Savage Jedi (Knight)

Posts: 3622
Pilot Valley NV, aka Tatooine
Gender: male

Re: Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check
Reply #6 - 10/08/07 at 21:29:10

Dr_Jim wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:

Oh Ye of little Face ....

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/cam_chain_5a.JPG

Guess that it would be safe to call this tensioner"Fairly Boogered up..."

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/cam_chain_1a.JPG

Frighteningly enough, it looks like someone had been driving in this condition for a few miles - enough for the tensioner to chew a divot out of the tensioner body.

Ugly - or in the immortal words of William Shakespear "Foo-KED" - pronounced Foo as in Egg Foo Young - KED as in poorly fitting sneakers

I really should trust my mechanical instincts - since I diagnosed the problem over the phone before even seeing the bike, and then spent 3 days fussing to make sure I was correct before finally just puling the case off.

The odometer indicates 13720 miles, the bike is weathered, but not badly abused, and the engine oil looks like high-mileage dinosaur juice.

Verslagen - what should I quote him for a Stage 1 modified tensioner assembly - e.g. pinned, but no extra hole - how long to get one to Seattle, and how best to pay you?

Lancer - Thanks, BTW, for getting the 2nd chain on order - no question he's going to need it.

Cheers

Jim

OUCH!!! And I thought I had boogered up my tensioner.

The milage on the bike is just a tad more than I had on mine when my tensioner went south.

Back to top

Check out Flight of Destiny http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H9130XC

IP Logged

Savage_Rob

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

Mechanically
Inclined Amateur

Posts: 6972
Texas (Dallas area)
Gender: male

Re: Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check
Reply #7 - 10/09/07 at 05:46:43

That is why the Verslagen1 mod gives me some peace of mind. Should I let mine go long enough that parts need replacing, it'll get noisy and let me know. It won't disengage and self-destruct. The additional Slavy mod lets me reset the plunger and get some extra use of one chain/guide set before I need to replace parts. Together, the VerSlavy mod is one of my favorites.

Back to top

IP Logged

verslagen1

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28905
L.A. California
Gender: male

Re: Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check
Reply #8 - 10/09/07 at 07:10:12

Dr_Jim wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:

Verslagen - what should I quote him for a Stage 1 modified tensioner assembly - e.g. pinned, but no extra hole - how long to get one to Seattle, and how best to pay you?

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=Market;action=display;num=11802...

$75 for the Verslagen1 or $115 for the Verslavy by Paypal preferred. PM'd you Grin

Back to top

Versey's Place
Tech Section Index

IP Logged

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check Reply #9 - 10/09/07 at 10:19:38 I've tried 3 times & the pics wont load,, dawgoneitt!
Back to top	The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke. IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28905 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check Reply #10 - 10/09/07 at 11:16:07 Dr_Jim, Your observations have given us new insight on diagnosing adjuster failure! Thanks. As you're tearing into this (and it might be too late already) see how much the cam timing can float with the adjuster like that.
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

Savage_Greg Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Don't go around your ass to reach your elbow... Posts: 7844 SW Washington State Gender:	Re: Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check Reply #11 - 10/09/07 at 14:01:43 Too cool! I guess that I forgot the chain could jump on the bottom gear with enough slack. And nothing was said about cam chain noise! It ran "like pooh" and made no mechanical sounds? Where did the spring end up? Since you have to remove the headcover now, perhaps you can find how much the timing has changed.
Back to top	IP Logged

Dr_Jim Ex Member	Re: Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check Reply #12 - 10/09/07 at 15:28:41 -
Back to top	« Last Edit: 12/23/07 at 11:20:40 by Dr_Jim » IP Logged

Oldfeller2

Senior Member

Offline

I love YaBB 1G -
SP1!

Posts: 323

Gender: male

Re: Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check
Reply #13 - 10/09/07 at 15:52:21

I think its time to start an organized complaint to Suzuki USA.

===============

Do we have a lawyer in the house? Does somebody know one or is related to one? Is this nonsense grounds for a class action suit or at least a forced repair campaign?

Having these much newer S40 scoots die at 8,000-9,000 miles has been documented 3x now. This is negligent and is a direct result of tensioner spring pressure changes Suzuki made.

Having our older model L650 Savage scoots die in the low teens is documented now at least 4x now. This is with the low grade chain and the old softer tensioner spring.

This IS NOT NORMAL performance from a respectable cam chain tensioning system.

The tensioner coming apart and dropping into the gears like that is POOR DESIGN to say the least.

==============

Do we have a lawyer in the house? Does somebody know one or is related to one? Is this nonsense grounds for a class action suit or at least a forced repair campaign?

Oldfeller

Back to top

IP Logged

jkhulon73 Ex Member	Re: Cam Chain/Tensioner Reality Check Reply #14 - 10/09/07 at 17:06:11 My chain was stretched out at only 7450 miles...
Back to top	IP Logged