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Cranky mornings (Read 17 times)
skatnbnc
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Cranky mornings
08/02/07 at 15:14:28
 
I figure Suzi does not need coffee like I do in the morning, so I was hoping you all could help with a problem that has been occurring.

Oil change is happening this weekend. It is dirty and it is time.  Its hot here, about 90 daily and humid.  In the morning its better, about 80. I ride to work daily, and run errands all day on the bike.  Each morning I have this issue.

Choke out, all systems go, battery good, starts up fine, no hesitation.  Push choke back in, pull out of driveway. All good.

Go to first street and add a little throttle, still in first gear. The bike repeatedly slightly hesitates, like its not getting gasoline.  

Go up in speed, still in first gear and it has afew times of slight power drop.  Still able to accelerate, but there is a hiccup of power every few seconds - feels like she is going to lose power. Shift to second, and a few more 'bumps' and then - all good.

Any higher gear is fine. Any riding after the first ride of the morning is fine. Once the engine is warm, no troubles.

This past two weeks I have tried the following: I tried leaving the choke out for longer. I tried letting it warm up for 5 minutes in the driveway before pulling out. I tried warming up for TEN minutes. I tried staying in first longer and moving really slow to get oil circulating. Nothing changed the effect.

So here are my thoughts - please feel free to chime in, refute and amend.

Could there be sediment in there (anywhere) that settles at night, then gets stirred up at starting, causing this weird little power loss?

Is something sticking at night and coming loose after warm up?

Any other ideas?
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forrest
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Re: Cranky mornings
Reply #1 - 08/02/07 at 15:45:41
 
Mine does the same thing in the morning, not on the evening ride home, and if I keep the pet-thingy set for reserve it runs fine.  I don't know technically why, but one of the gurus probably knows.
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Re: Cranky mornings
Reply #2 - 08/02/07 at 16:02:25
 
My 02 also does it, but since I changed out the pilot and reset the idle mixture it is much better. Only takes about a qtr mile to quit hesitating.  Seems to be worse on very humid days, once past that first qtr mile it is fine. Didn't seem to matter whether choke was out it didn't cure it. May just be how it vaporizes the fuel. I don't suppose there is a fuel additive that is regional that could be causing the problem is there?
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SavageDude
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Re: Cranky mornings
Reply #3 - 08/02/07 at 16:18:23
 
Occasionally mine acted up like yours. I switch the petc*ck to PRIME and it run fine. My guess is the vaccum tube sometimes does not want to do it job or maybe in the morning the diaphram inside the petc*ck shrink a bit and got stuck. Hence it does not allow fuel to come down to the carb. At high speed, you have more vaccum from the engine. Therefore it overcomes the diaphram's stickiness.
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Re: Cranky mornings
Reply #4 - 08/02/07 at 16:36:31
 
My 96 has the same issue. First run of the day. As far as a local additive by looking at the profiles it seems we are all over the map. Seeing how we are all having this issue may be a "feature" of the bike.  Grin I would like to hear from others and see if this is a common situation. Thanks
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Re: Cranky mornings
Reply #5 - 08/02/07 at 17:13:06
 
My '03 has the same wonderful 1st run of the day feature. Must just be another one of it's intresting quirks. Grin About the only time it doesn't do it is on a cold morning, under 15 degrees. Go figure, something do with fuel vaporization at a higher temp?
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Re: Cranky mornings
Reply #6 - 08/02/07 at 17:35:13
 
My 07 does the same thing.  Takes about 2 to 3 miles for the bike to run right.  Only happens on the first run of the day.
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forrest
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Re: Cranky mornings
Reply #7 - 08/02/07 at 17:41:55
 
The temp in the am doesn't seem to be a factor for mine and since it acts up for at least the first 5+ miles I just leave it in reserve for the morn.
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Re: Cranky mornings
Reply #8 - 08/02/07 at 17:45:21
 
I start up with the choke out to the first notch just to get the idle up, I have a tach and know what idle speed is.  In the mornings, it's 900 to 1k with the choke in.  First knotch brings it up to 1100 to 12.  Sometime I run to the end of the driveway and push it it, sometimes I go a couple of blocks. Certainly runs better at high rpm.  When I got it pushed in from the driveway, it goes ok put it surges when I hold a steady speed.  I remember reading here that shaving the white spacer had a positive effect on that.  So, I need to check mine.

I know I have a petc0ck problem as I have to run in reserve all the time or it will run out of gas at speed.  I've replaced the vacuum line, I've had the petc0ck all apart, and found nothing.

For the others who put it in reserve and problems goes away, You might be having the beginnings of my problem.  But check the vacuum line and make sure it's good.  My hose is new and tight, so I don't have clamps on yet.  I might try that soon.

I know my idle fluctuates with temperature.  In the morn, it's slow.  After the commute, it's fast 14 to 15.  And I can tell it's cooling down, when I hit the driveway it's 11 to 12.  My mornings are a perfect 70 right now.  Great time to be cased up in ATGATT.  The evening commute is 90 and I'm doing the 7/70 airconditioning when ever I can.

So my guess is... idle up a bit.  And check you vac line.   Grin
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skatnbnc
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Re: Cranky mornings
Reply #9 - 08/02/07 at 18:07:36
 
You all have been VERY HELPFUL! Seriously!  Smiley
I was getting worried that my bike about to fall apart in some mysterious way.

Tomorrow morning I will try PRI and/or RES instead of the usual setting and see if that makes a difference. I did check all the flexible lines tonight just to be sure, and everything is tight and clamped.

After reading the posts about the summer stickiness, this came to mind.  It has been very humid and sticky for the same time that I have had this problem.
In fact, when a cold front came through last month and dropped the humidity to zero for two days, the bike ran perfectly in the morning.  Ahh hah moment...
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skrapiron -FSO
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Re: Cranky mornings
Reply #10 - 08/02/07 at 18:28:22
 
Mine did the same thing as well.  ON a cold start, it just felt like it was surging... Getting some gas, then none at all, then gas again.

On mine, I removed the idle mixture screw plug and dialed my ide mix to about 2.5 turns out.

Additionally, I pulled the cas tank and opened the carb.  At the bottom of the diaphragm assm is the plate that holds the needle valve in place.  I removed mine and sanded the white spacer down by about 1/3 of the original thickness.

Since I did the two tuning mods, I haven't had to use the choke once to get the bike going.  I start it up and let it idle while I get my gear on and then go riding.

The surging is almost completely gone, as well as mcuh of the notorious backrfire.  I have to get on the throttle pretty hard to hear it bark anymore.

Anyway, the spacer mod worked wonders for me.  It's something to consider...
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Re: Cranky mornings
Reply #11 - 08/02/07 at 18:35:32
 
Mine does that as well. Letting it idle for a little longer helps after startup. Also change to PRI and ride for a while and then switch back...no problems.
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youzguyz
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Re: Cranky mornings
Reply #12 - 08/03/07 at 04:03:05
 
Same symptoms here.  1st ride of day only.
I am pretty convinced mine is the petthingy, as it died completely on me once (for the 1st time, which gave me the famous "rut ro" feeling).  Switched to PRI, started up ok.  Switched back a few blocks later.. and all was fine.
I'm going to try the PRI as well on my next 1st ride.
I thought RES still used the vacuum line?
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skatnbnc
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Re: Cranky mornings
Reply #13 - 08/03/07 at 06:25:53
 
It's 85 and so humid that you cannot see all the way down a street through the haze.

I tried putting the PetC on RES first this morning and that didn't do squat.

Turned it over to PRI at the first stop sign, and had better luck. Not perfect, but better.

Got a little nervous leaving it on PRI, so I switched it after about 2 miles back to FUEL.

Will continue this for a week and report back. I think it's too early to tell after just one try.
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Re: Cranky mornings
Reply #14 - 08/03/07 at 07:04:40
 
Might be that the fuel is leaking or evaporating out of the carb bowl while sitting overnight. Putting the Petc0ck selector to prime allows gravity to fill the bowl (especially if you wait a couple of seconds before firing the engine) otherwise you have to wait until vacuum fills the bowl - might look for a vacuum leak also because putting the selector to reserve gives more static pressure head in the fuel tank. So if reserve helps, see if having a full tank helps. If it only happens in the morning, I'd suspect a vacuum leak combined with warmer weather causing more evaporation. A little more idle speed often helps (covers up) small vacuum leaks.
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