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HD Muffler Swap - questions (Read 12 times)
pgman
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HD Muffler Swap - questions
07/07/07 at 18:58:17
 
A friend of ours gave us a brand-new (well, almost) HD muffer for the wife's Savage.  The install went very smoothly, but now she is back-firing a lot.  If I understand it, I am going to have to re-jet the carb now.  My questions:

Do I, in fact have to re-jet?

If a re-jet is not absolutely necessary, is there an adjustment I can make on the carb to enrichen the mixture?

Finally, if re-jetting is the only option, where is the best place to buy the parts and what jet number(s) do I need?

Thanks for helping me - I may put the stock muffler back on for now because I don't want to screw anytihng up.
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Re: HD Muffler Swap - questions
Reply #1 - 07/07/07 at 22:26:06
 
I'm not the best one here to answer this for you but, yes.  I think you will have to re-jet.  Try doing a search for "white spacer mod".  There are a lot of helpful articles here.  Basically, what I did was to put in a larger main jet and sand the spacer down to about 1/2.  You'll probably have to figure out which jets are the best for your area.  I'd try the search first though, it'll really help you out.
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pgman
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Re: HD Muffler Swap - questions
Reply #2 - 07/08/07 at 19:30:57
 
Well, I looked around and found some info about the "white spacer" carb mod.  I went ahead and tried this, although I did not expect it to actually solve my current issue.  The first time I tried it, I only put one small washer in and then the bike wouldn't go much over 40 MPH.  Also, it was pumping out quite a lot of black smoke.  Soooo - I took the whole thing apart a second time and added another small washer to the stack.  This time, there is still a tiny puff of black smoke when I decelerate, but the thing runs really well.  It scampers up to 60 (and  beyond) - even a little better than before, I think.

Now, the back-firing isn't totally cured, but I am not so sure it is any worse than it was with the stock muffler.  Once i actually rode the bike (my wife rode it home from the shop where we changed the muffler) I began to wonder if she wasn't just hearing the small putters and pops that I am sure were there with the stock muffler.  The difference is that this muffler is louder anyway and so she probably just didn't notice them before.  I don't know - I am really thinking I wasted my time on this carb mod.

I rode it a good 15 miles this evening and the only back-firing I heard were an occasional pop while shifting 1-2 and 2-3, plus a little puttering here and there when using engine braking.  I am not talknig about loud bangs or cracking, either - just a mild pop.  I almost like it but it may be more than the misses wants.  So - I am still considering a re-jet but I don't know if anything will completely stop this.  This bike just cleared 3000 miles so it really is just breaking in.  I have read that this engine tends to pop a bit when it is new anyway.  I wonder if this will just go away on its own.  Also, there is a small leak where the HD muffler slips over the header pipe.  I was wondering if this could be allowing air into the muffler to cause some of this popping.  I plan to tackle this leak next weekend because I want to fabricate another bracket anyway.

Does anyone know of a chrome cover that will fit over the mounting clamp when doing this modification?   Right now, I am using the stock cover but it looks a little bit dorky because there is a rather large gap around it (the HD muffler is way skinnier than the stock one.
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smokey02
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Re: HD Muffler Swap - questions
Reply #3 - 07/08/07 at 21:48:27
 
I used a 10 inch heat shield with my HD turnout.
There is a 7 inch x 1 3/4 inch adaptor underneath it.
The Samson heat shield is a H129  10" x 2 1/4"
Very nice chrome.
http://www.samsonusa.com  
(click on Accessories, then Heat Shields) I ordered
mine from a local chopper shop, $39.95 + tax

They have all sizes, other companies make shields too.



As for the white spacer, you may have to adjust the Main jet size, since that needle that the white spacer is on is directly coupled to the main jet.

check this chart for different jets used in this carb



Later models are leaner and have more backfiring problems, exhaust leaks can make it worse.

Also look at "Carbs, Jetting, & Exhaust" (5th post down)
in the Table of Contents, Technical Documents/References
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Re: HD Muffler Swap - questions
Reply #4 - 07/08/07 at 22:34:27
 
If the Harley Muffler is baffled, not bored out and you are running the stock air cleaner you should NOT have to rejet. When you attached the HD muffler to your headerpipe, did you use a shim, like a strip of soda can, and did you REALLY tighten it down? An exhaust leak there will cause backfiring and popping. Recheck for a good fit before you take it off.
Just my 2 centavos
Ike
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1996 Just bought it, Maroon, so much to do, so little time ... Future adds: Iridium, dyna muff, air filter mod, fork brace, 1 piece seat, carb mod and more
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smokey02
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Re: HD Muffler Swap - questions
Reply #5 - 07/08/07 at 23:04:38
 
I still have stock air box/filter and the HD is stock baffled. I didn't rejet or change the white spacer. I just turned out the idle screw. (under the pull off brass plug) That might be enough on yours too. I also used muffler patch compound in a squeeze tube when I put the adaptor on the end of the header to seal it really well under the clamps.

Mine doesn't backfire much anymore. It snarls and rumbles a bit, sometimes pops a little on upshift, and has a Jake brake kind of sound when slowing down. But no big shotgun blast at shutoff, only rarely an occasional poof.
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Re: HD Muffler Swap - questions
Reply #6 - 07/09/07 at 05:04:56
 
Be sure to adjust the pilot air adjusting screw (was under the brass plug) for highest idle speed possible.  You should be able to find a spot where the idle speed peaks, and if turned left or right it will decrease.  That is the best setting for the pilot system ... let's call it the sweet spot.  Once that is done, then use the idle speed adjusting screw to set the idle speed to about 1100 rpm (normal idle speed).
The best spot for the pilot air adjusting screw is usually 1.5-2.0 turns out.  Never go beyond 3 turns out, since doing so does not leave enough tension on the little spring holding that screw in place and it can fall out ... not a good thing when going down the road.
If you are not able to find the sweet spot, then you will need to go to the next larger pilot jet, and then retune as just described.

This process is assuming that the all of the carburetor's jets and passageways are clean and clear, the floats functioning normally, vacuum line good with no leaks, etc.  If not, then it can be impossible to jet/tune properly.

The two prime causes of backfiring are a lean pilot system and exhaust air leaks.

A little popping and crackling are normal when a more free flowing muffler is installed.  It is not harmful.  The very loud SHOTGUN TYPE BANG
is not good and can be harmful.  Rejetting is definitely required when that is happening.
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Re: HD Muffler Swap - questions
Reply #7 - 07/09/07 at 05:55:29
 
Thanks for all the input.

At this time, I believe that the little bit of popping I am hearing is probably due to either the small leak (which I plan to address this week) or it may just be normal.

After the muffler swap, the engine would die if I reved it beyond about half throttle and then quickly rolled it back to idle (actually, it did this occasionally even before the muffler swap).  I messed with the pilot a bit and I think I got it in the "sweet spot", but I was just doing it by ear (the idle smoothed out and just sounded better).  After I did that, the engine seemed to recover from the roll-on, roll-off process but the RPM still drops way down (well below 1000 - I have a tachometer) before it comes back up to normal.  Also, I see a puff of black smoke when this happens - just before the idle speed comes back up.  I figure I am probably dumping some raw fuel into the engine when I suddenly drop the throttle, but I am not sure if this can be corrected.  I tried raising the idle speed and this helped.  Now it idles slightly above 1100 (my tach isn't THAT accurate) but it still drops down if I rev it up then quickly close the throttle.

Is this normal or is there a way to set up the carb so this does not happen?

Really, this modification does help a lot - it is worth doing, in my opininon.  The thing actually sounds like a motorcycle now and the look is better (with the exception of the heat shield, which I will address).  Thanks for the info, folks.  I will post back when I know more about this situation.

By the way, this bike is all bone-stock except for the white spacer mod and the muffler swap.  I did have to crank the clamp bolts down REAL tight, but the shim I made to seal the HD muffler onto the pipe didn't work right so I am going to do something different this week.
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Re: HD Muffler Swap - questions
Reply #8 - 07/11/07 at 13:48:48
 
Smokey02, This is no joke. How would you describe the Jake brake kind of sound ? Is this a whrling sort of sound on slow down? If so what causes it? If that is  not the sort of sound as you would describe it do you or anyone else have any idea what would cause that sound (whrling sort of sound ) on slow down on a stock 96 Savage or is that just the sound te bike makes in general? I am new to this bike and want to advoid problems id I can. Thanks again to all
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Re: HD Muffler Swap - questions
Reply #9 - 07/11/07 at 14:17:22
 
The jake brake sound refers to the diesel semi's that use engine braking to slow down.  Only in their case the engine has a mechanism to activate it.  I'm not sure weather it's automatic or not.  Just a deep, loud, rumble that everyone has come to know as a big truck slowing down.

The savage with a non-stock muf will make it too.  nice to have as it gets the cagers to look out the window occassionaly while they're eating their lunch, talking on the phone while shaving and changing their pants.
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Re: HD Muffler Swap - questions
Reply #10 - 07/11/07 at 14:30:55
 
verslagen1, Thanks for the graphic definition.  Grin. As soon as I am certain of this bike I will surely be adding a non-stock muffer and some other mods. I was just happy to get the oil changed along with the air filter without braking anything. First milestone. Thanks again

Sorry 'bout highjacking the thread
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Re: HD Muffler Swap - questions
Reply #11 - 07/11/07 at 15:53:40
 
Hi Strafford_Guy

Here's an explanation of a Jacobs brake and a typical sound file:

http://www.timesfreepress.com/MEDIA/audio/metro/2007/april/JakeBraking0401.mp3

Jacobs Compression Release Brake    www.jakebrake.com

It works by feathering open the exhaust valves when the engine is slowing down. Normally on compression stroke the air is compressed in the cylinder, and even if no fuel is added, the compressed air will push the piston back down where the power stroke would be, but if you let off the pressure, that springiness is lost out the exhaust manifold and power is lost. Makes the engine act like a compressor, loads it down enough to provide lots of braking power and saves wear on the wheel brakes. But it is noisy.

Some cities outlaw it.



Anyway, my HD pipe has that popping/thumping sound when I close the throttle and slow down. Not as loud as a Jake brake but a similar sound. I don't think it hurts anything, but it will occationally set off car alarms. (Especially in underground parking lots - LOL)
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