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Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths (Read 53 times)
borne2fly
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Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
05/23/07 at 15:06:29
 
I've heard howls and screams about the long oil path between the oil pump and the camshaft, and how we need to be a little gentle for a minute or two with the engine after it starts to give the oil time to reach the camshaft.

Is there a check valve in this path? Other engines with long oil paths place a check valve in the oil line to prevent the oil draining back, .... when the engine starts, oil is immediately available to the cam area.

Even though the factory saw fit to not use cam bearings or rocker bearings (inexcusable penny-pinching in my opinion), the proper placement of check valves in the oil system would extend the life of the engine tremendously.  Hmmmm, might extend it TOO much, maybe that's the issue Wink
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borne2fly
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Re: Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
Reply #1 - 05/23/07 at 15:11:11
 
Also, when I had the cam cover off, I don't recall seeing any oil holes in the rocker shafts, so I shudder to think how they get oil. Please tell me they don't rely on oil splash to lube these shafts ...
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
Reply #2 - 05/23/07 at 17:28:24
 
borne2fly wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:05:
Also, when I had the cam cover off, I don't recall seeing any oil holes in the rocker shafts, so I shudder to think how they get oil. Please tell me they don't rely on oil splash to lube these shafts ...

Okay, they don't rely on splash... Feel better now?
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borne2fly
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Re: Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
Reply #3 - 05/23/07 at 20:34:31
 
Thanks Rob.
I'll sleep better now Smiley
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Reelthing
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Re: Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
Reply #4 - 05/23/07 at 20:41:18
 
it's better than splash - it's the sling method - see that pool of oil right under the cam?
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verslagen1
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Re: Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
Reply #5 - 05/23/07 at 22:25:00
 
if oiling the top was a big issue, we'd be seeing these things fail by now.  We've had absolutely only one report of cam bushing failing from some fellow who'll never touch a savage again.  Who's the guy who forgot to refill his wife's bike after draining the oil?  And that didn't end up with a seized cam.  So why all this fuss over some idiot who can write?

I drained my oil, I tipped the bike from side to side to get every last drop.  I took the head cover off and look who's taking an oil bath?  The cam that's who.  Maybe cam seizo got savage no. 1 and they didn't have bathtubs back then.  Can't say, but we got them now and it seems to work.  If it ain't broke don't fix it.   Grin
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
Reply #6 - 05/23/07 at 23:01:33
 
When I did the cam, I filled that little bathtub up with fresh oil. I like that little idea. Looking at the zuki manual, page 4-10 it shows the oil circuit & shows the rockers as being positively oiled from a pressurized galley if I am reading it right.There are little black arows & dotted lines( which indicate internal passageways, I think) The solid lines indicate passages in the block, dashed lines indicate passageways inside the cam & rockers. I didnt do well in mechanical drawing. ( I am being way too kind)
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
Reply #7 - 05/23/07 at 23:16:12
 
Welll, Now, Looka here. Page 4-9 has a flow chart. It shows droplets from cam face to rocker arm & shaft. SO, I am gonna have to say I really did do lousy in mechanical drawing. I guess that's why I couldnt find the passageway to the rocker, cuz it slings on it, Just like Reelthing said.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
Reply #8 - 05/24/07 at 08:57:17
 
Don't think that I recall anyone ever seizing the Savage motor from oil starvation.  Most problems seem to involve oil in the wrong places Tongue

If you do a rebuild it is a good idea to use engine assembly grease on all the head parts anyway.  It kinda dirties up the appearance of the oil, but it's good stuff.
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Re: Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
Reply #9 - 05/24/07 at 13:24:18
 
Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:05:
If you do a rebuild it is a good idea to use engine assembly grease on all the head parts anyway.  It kinda dirties up the appearance of the oil, but it's good stuff.

That's what the book says "Put molycote paste on the cam-bearing surfaces".
Remember the discussion we had over the oil passage on the top of the casing , and the restrictor in the oilline to the other side of the engine, to lubricate the gearbox?
If the restrictor is missing and/or the oilpassage is leaking oil to the inside of the clutch cover the cam will not get enough oil and consequently will seize and destroy the alluminum bearingsurface.
Also the oilring in the clutchcover sealing-off the passage to the crankshaft should be in good condition to build-up suffisient oilpressure.


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verslagen1
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Re: Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
Reply #10 - 05/24/07 at 13:42:32
 
I didn't have the moly stuff when I redid mine so I poured 1/2 quart thru the valve inspection cover to fill up the bathtub for the cam.   Grin
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
Reply #11 - 05/24/07 at 13:44:48
 
And what about stuff like Slick-50?
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verslagen1
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Re: Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
Reply #12 - 05/24/07 at 13:47:26
 
It's a friction modifier, liable to screw up the clutch.   Grin
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
Reply #13 - 05/24/07 at 13:49:11
 
verslagen1 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:05:
It's a friction modifier, liable to screw up the clutch.   Grin

I was waiting to see who'd be first to remember the wet clutch.  LOL!
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Re: Camshaft lubrication and long oil paths
Reply #14 - 05/26/07 at 12:04:00
 
Is this still about that silly Wikipedia entry?  

Days of discussion over something written by one disgruntled guy about one bike?  Things you are struggling to see how it "could have happened" and are having to make up theories to how it mighta coulda maybe possibly take place?

Have you guys even READ the offending Wikipedia entry that caused all this fuss?  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_LS650_Savage

I found it quite conclusive, very rational and informative.  Indeed, I have to say I agree with it totally and fail to see why you are still even discussing it -- what it says is completely true and has authorative reference conformation sources listed that I feel I can trust.

Oldfeller
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