I'll have what he's having.

And if you are astute, you will go to the Wiki and click on the discussions and read the comments that other people  have written about Cancun's orginal Wiki Savage hate-blast -- there have been other "factual sorts" in the past who have found his comments to be unfounded.

Wiki material on the Savage is to be maintained by responsible and authortative sources.

In the English speaking Web world, that's us.

Oldfeller

I knew of this wiki for some time, and just found out how easy it is to change.  No I didn't delete the complaint, I'd have preferred he validated his claim though.  And the shameless plug.  Who did that?  

I guess you didn't read the wiki before it was changed... He said the bike was unreliable due to cam shaft failures, why I don't know.

Someone recently updated it and deleted the comment.

And shameless plug wasn't directed at JH.  Go back and have another one.  

I didn't get upset, I was just funning with you guys for trying to find a real world explanation for something that apparently wasn't all that real to begin with.  I wasn't trying to shut down your discussion, just finally got the source fixed so we don't have to discuss it every few weeks whenever somebody new reads the Wiki.

All the "oil up to the top end" things I have ever seen discussed here really seem to boil down into common sense -- keep your idle speed up somewhat to make sure oil continues pumping while you are waiting at lights and such.  Keep oil in your bike.  Change your oil regularly.

Now if you want to discuss new ways to make sure you get oil up to the top end, that's great.  We could discuss moly greases used up there during rebuilds if you wanted a little bit of a residual lube -- but how would you keep it out of the clutch as it moved around later, I dunno.

Hey, if you wanted to inform newbies that they should always keep their idle speed set up a bit higher than they could possibly get away with, then let's put up a permanent sticky at the top of the tech section that tells them that in simple plain terms.  Tell them it is to maintain good top end oiling practices and also to prevent endless global Wiki polution too.  

If I came across too salty, I appologize.  Wrassing with tires does that too me -- not my favorite thing to do.  

As far as shameless plugs go, you ARE the English speaking experts.  If it were in German language, somebody else might be the expert over there in Europe.

(but not the Scandinavian guy who wrote the book length thing, please)

Now if you do want to have endless "repeater" discussions based on a "in the Wiki" question -- you could go put the cam chain tensioner thing into the Wiki instead of the not-very-real oiler thing that got removed.

<evil grin>

Oldfeller

Been thinking about the original reason for this post. Seems like if the oil in the filter and oil gallerys are past the pump, then drain back at shut off should be minimal as the pump should serve as a check valve of sorts. When we change the oil then we add a big air bubble in the system, but given the design not much can be done about that. Purist automotive type will fill an oil filter so the air bubble is smaller at oil/filter change time if possible. In any case there will be a reserve of oil for the cam lobes in the pockets in the head until another shot of clean oil gets there. The rest of the friction points (rocker arms/shafts and cam baring surfaces) would have a good coating of oil and normally be OK for a short period. In any case I believe this builds a good case for the higest quality oil you can afford in our Savage engines anyway. Until I see otherwide I will go with a diesel rated synthetic 10-40 or 15-40 weight. Max

Oil drain back ....... I'm not sure I would rely on the oil pump to act as a check valve. If this were the case there would be no need for check valves in the oil system for any engine. I understand that the cam lobe bucket maintains an oil reservoir for the cam lobes at all times, but I'm more concerned about the cam "bearings".

Part of me is dying to chuck the head up in a mill to add cam bushings, rocker arm bushings, a pressure feed to the rocker shafts with exit holes to flood the bushings, and a check valve even if I need to use an external oil line. Just daydreaming for now.

I was interested to find out if anyone had installed a check valve in the lubrication system to the cylinder head. With all the forces acting on the cam bearing surfaces it seems reasonable to insure that pressurized oil is available immediately after the engine starts, especially since there are no replaceable cam bearings as in many other engines.