Oldfeller2 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:05:



I might be able to get by with the old "ribbed style" front tires myself, as I seldom do brake radically hard with the front or rear brakes on the Savage. While my braking style involves use of front, rear, and engine, usually in that order of amount of force, it is just unusual for me to dive close into a corner at high speed, and then stand hard on the brakes to set up for the corner. Since I usually ride alone, there is nobody I'm trying to out-brake for position so...

Of course there are the rare occasions where I need to slow or stop quicker than I care too, but I'm usually eying the road far enough ahead to avoid those situations.

At any rate, though I ride pretty hard, I don't think i ride so close to the edge that tire type is that critical in my general riding. However, the next front tire I install will probably be a Dunlop 404; because I got one with almost no miles on it given to me when I bought the '99.

As I continue to change the setup on the '87, I may try a lower profile front tire to go along with the planned taller rear shocks and big rear tire. The combined effect should decrease rake a little bit, and also raise ground clearance some. Along with my 32" wide bars, the bike should be a blast on twisty backroads!

Here is a link to click on.   But before you go there, know in your heart these two small facts....

Volkswagens and Karman-Gia sports coups ran a 15 inch narrow tire that just "might" fit our frames and fenders.  135x15 and 140x15 was the designation that they are still sold under today.

There are brand new econo-boxes coming out of Europe and Asia that are coming out using 15" rim diameter MODERN narrow tires.  

I suspect that you can buy a silica impregnated rubber tire for one of these bad boys as listed above with an 80,000 mile warranty that won't cost any more than your premium motorcycle tires that only last a year.

Here's that link -- you see I am not alone in my madness.

http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html

<grin>

Luke, beware the Darkside ....

Oldyodafeller

Oldfeller2 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:05:



If the profile were right, I don't think I'd hesitate to run a car tire on the back. I'd certainly find it much preferable to some of the nearly slick treadless cycle tires so common today. Those things may be gummy enough to have good dry traction, and barely enough grooves to shed water and not hydroplane badly, but there are lots of situations where having no real tread pattern is downright dangerous. I'll relate an example in a post in "The Cafe."

I suppose you could use the stock tube as well  

Oldfeller2 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:05:



Just by coincidence, I just bought a set of four like-new Michelin 'take-offs' from eBay for my Envoy. Regular cost around here is a bit over $800 + mounting etc... I got these from eBay for $325 + $100 shipping:



Even after paying for mounting/balancing etc... I'll still come out with well over $300 savings pocketed.

I might be willing to split a pair of those Nankang tires with someone. No kidding. I'd bet donuts that the incident I had with the sand on that expressway bridge/curve the other night wouldn't have been near as scary with that tire as with these bald treadless things we call motorcycle tires nowadays.

However, about fitting... It's gonna be close on the width. As here's what my digital calipers measure the 140/90-15 Dunlop 404 on the back of my '99 Savage at:


And those Dunlops are an extremely tight fit!

They list the Nankang 135s at 5.59"
I checked the dimensions on their 145's, (5.98") and I'm pretty sure they are a no-go on the width.

Another thing... Those 135's are going to be a bit shorter (at least 1/2") than my Dunlop, so it means a slight drop in gearing and maybe as much as a couple hundred more RPM at highway speed. Having the chain conversion would be really handy... In fact, the tire/belt clearance is the thing that would concern me most about trying a wider tire. Perhaps with a chain it might be possible to squeeze another eighth to quarter inch of tread width under there???

That's just the deal... some say you can and they do use 15" car tires, and some say no-way... it ain't safe. I would suppose it would matter somewhat on exactly which car tire and motorcycle wheel (rim/bead) you were combining.

I just discussed this subject with one of the most experienced riders I know, and according to him, the car tires "Handle like crap" and "scared the he11" out of him on winding roads. Though he also said that it is not uncommon amongst the drag bikers to use them, even at high speed. But then they are hoping to go in a perfectly straight line, and cornering at speed is of little concern to them.

So... I might abandon the idea of trying a car tire on the back of one of my Savages, but I still might look for an older "universal tread" bias ply type rear tire to try at some point in the future. I've already searched high and low for a trail or knobby tread that will fit the standard Savage rear wheel. There are none that I could find anywhere. The only 15" knobby I found was such a small profile that it probably wouldn't even stretch onto the wheel. If it did it would probably look like a rubber band!

The mention of popping the bead cords in a tire... I've got some old huge 3 foot tire irons suitable for changing car tires by hand. Some years ago, I got tired of fighting a big knobby onto the rim of a dirt bike and broke out those bars to get the tire on,,, It went on, but made some terrible pops and ripping sounds. I know there were some bead bands busted getting it on there, but the thing was still so tight that it never gave me any problems. Didn't seem to wobble or be out of balance or anything, so I just rode it.

Two things:

1) Car tires have a squared-off profile, while bike tires have a round(ed) profile; this is because a ar will steer only through its steering wheels, while a bike will also lean;

2) When a bike tire is badly worn, it wil generally look "squared out" and will handle like shyte on bends... which is exactly what you can expect from a car tir in the first place !

On my previous (glorious) Guzzi I had Pirelli Mandrakes, also known as... MT48 I believe, 3.25x18 front and 3.50x18 rear, same design front and back (they actually had rotation for both front and back on the same tire!) with a big-ish central groove and the typical snakey grooves on the sides. They would work wonderfully on my Guzzi (500cc and 47hp) and never let me down.

The MT48 eventually gave way to the MT53, and now they sell the MT66

Old tires were really good tires...

Now for some numbers ---

Our stock tire is 25 inches tall.  Our stock tire is 5.2 inches wide.  We have 0.7" of clearance on each side of the tire.  On the right we hit the lug that holds on the right hand passenger peg (this could get trimmed if needed).  On the left we hit the belt guard (which could be relieved if needed).  We have clearance to the U of the swingarm to the tune of .880" which cannot be moved.

The fattest tire we could theoretically swing without taking out the grinder would be 6.5 inches wide.  Ideally, we want to stay at 25" in diameter or get even shorter as we get wider (wishing to keep some clearance to the top of the fender during bumps, etc. -- as you get wider you take out the radial clearance as a wider straighter flat gets inserted to the same distance into the same round air clearance.

If we were willing to grind, we could go to 7" wide (but we could count on having other complications at that width such as needing a fatter fender).

Our rim is 3.63" wide.  VW tires were intended for a wider rim, so you can count on some slight bending of the flat part of the tread (and having one hell of a wrassel hassel putting the tire on the rim).


Look here and here for some data on current metric tire physical attributes.

WARNING:  Many tires are shorter-thinner-and some are WIDER than the general specs listed here.  Goodyear tires are generally WIDER than what is shown here, the cheap imports seem to run a bit skinnier as a rule of thumb.  YOU NEED TO GET SOMEBODY TO ACTUALLY MEASURE THE TIRE, then you need to remember it grows a bit with air pressure.

http://www.angelfire.com/on/geebjen/tires.html

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/chevylist/tech/tire_size_conversion.htm

So, not only are the VW tires listed in posts above possible darkside choices, but some new small 165 and 175 wide current 65 series metric tires could work as well.

Specifically, the new style Minicooper tire, the 175/65R15 just about totally fills out the maximum space between your swingarm rails -- but your real-world actual tire does not line up like that (rats, our stock tire is offset some) and there is a mounting boss on the right side of the swingarm that sticks out in the way making this a no fit.

But if it was easy, heck,  anybody could do it.

Once you pick your actual tire out, get in touch with the seller and get him to actually measure the width and height as every tire brand is slightly different than the "standards" say they should be.

That's Darkside talk for "it .... could .... WORK"

(if you are careful picking the out the actual tire)

   <a big grin & a crash of lightning and thunder>

Oldfeller