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any suggestions? (Read 7 times)
streece
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2000,155main,55
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any suggestions?
04/21/07 at 16:24:27
 
i have a 2000 model with screamin eagle exhaust, 155 main jet and a 55 pilot.  has been running fine, maybe a little on the rich side.  i rode 200 miles today and at cold start it runs fine with the choke on the first click, after it is warm it runs fine as well.  my problem is: after i have gone for a long distance and shut the engine down and start it back up after a few minutes then it just barley idles and sometimes dies.  but once it runs for a minute it is back to normal.  I have noticed if i pull the choke back to the first click in this situation it idles back up.  Any suggestions on this one?
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Trippah
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Re: any suggestions?
Reply #1 - 04/21/07 at 16:54:25
 
Lets see if I get this corectly, you startthe bike with the choke pulled  out, you ride off =all is fine- at some point you push the choke in, still okay, keep on riding.  You stop,and shut down. Come back 5 minutes later, and without pulling out the choke, you have trouble restarting. You then pull it out a notch and she starts fine..are you sure you're on the rich side generally since the choke is an enrichening circuit and your situation would make more sense if you were running a litttle lean...
Oh, what was the temp etc ...cause over 45 degrees you probably shouldn't need a choke at startup, or otherwise.  (I think thatsa bout the temp where I don't touch the choke).  
And about the changing idle speed, hopefully you set it when the bike as at operating temp, cause the choke seems to increase the idle speed, so when warmed up and no choke, your idle speed migh get a bit slow.
NOW, some one who actually knows about this stuff, please jump in. Cheesy
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streece
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Re: any suggestions?
Reply #2 - 04/21/07 at 17:11:04
 
yes...starts up with the choke..turn off choke a mile or so later...runs fine...idles at around 1000-1200 rpm (just listening by ear) after warm up.  

now after the 5 minute shut down it will start right back up, just does not want to idle and sometimes dies i have to give it gas to keep it alive .  then when you ride it down the road a mile it idles fine ???

i say it is running rich because i have a small amount of black soot in the end of my muffler.

today the temp. was 77 degrees.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: any suggestions?
Reply #3 - 04/22/07 at 07:09:20
 
I'd also lower that main jet back to a 152.5.  Yours is too big for that exhaust.

That's why you have black smoke, soot, and probably a dirty plug too.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: any suggestions?
Reply #4 - 04/22/07 at 07:27:38
 
But while we're on the subject...

Why does it seem that everyone just goes straight up to a 155 main jet when they change the exhaust?  Where is everyone getting this idea, anyway?

I mean...I've got a 157.5 and a 160 in my tool box.  Should I just slap one in there on the misguided notion that "bigger is better"?

I increased my main jet size slowly, one jet at a time.  I tried running a 157.5 but after a good ride, my brake arm was black.  Back down to a 155 is where I went.

From what I've read in this forum...most of the bikes with an exhaust modification are running too rich.  Most everyone's signature line lists a 155 main....and yet, I keep hearing people say that theirs "might be a little rich".  Or have a "little black smoke".

My spouse has more disks in her Trapp (14) than most everyone but she runs strong with a 152.5.  Stinger has 8 disks and he is running happily with a 147.5.  And both those bikes have a stock pilot....and no bluing too.

Come on Savages.  Black smoke is no better than blue chrome.  If you have smoke, decrease the jet size.

...just my 1 cent...
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azjay
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Re: any suggestions?
Reply #5 - 04/22/07 at 07:39:05
 
a little rich is better than a little lean, especially if you ride in hotter climates. perhaps a certain amount of over compensation for the savages factory lean condition exists too, although maybe not optimum, it reduces the potential to ventilate a piston. (JMO) we're in the 90* f.degs now, headed for the 100+* f.degs for the next 100 plus days.
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dyna muff,1/2 spacer,152.5,55,drilled air box,idle mix,spark plug door,harley bars & seat,spitfire windshield,turn signal,dunlops,man.pethingy,ISO pegs,engine cage,hiway pegs,support 81
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Savage_Greg
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Re: any suggestions?
Reply #6 - 04/22/07 at 07:49:50
 
I see your signature line, and that seems more correct.

I didn't say lean was better.  I said clear is better.  What I also said was, why does everyone take the direct route to a 155?  Just because the early Savages had it?

Shoot, I'm not the greatest mechanic around, but I don't just pick one main jet and figure it to be good to go either.

Who came up with the equation that states that "new exhaust = 155 main jet"?

BTW - I know Arizona is hot, but we used to live in the Carolinas, and moving to the NW didn't change our jetting either.
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Re: any suggestions?
Reply #7 - 04/22/07 at 07:51:01
 
I have the jardine exhaust and went to the 147.5. The Jardine comes with the inside painted black??? After a few miles it started getting lighter and lighter, plus the backfires. I went to a 155 and 55 pilot and now have a nice dark grey in the pipe and no more pop with the 55 pilot. I still have full white spacer, due to no hesitation in  full throttle twists, even after changing to the taller gearing.
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Re: any suggestions?
Reply #8 - 04/22/07 at 07:56:09
 
I also run a Jardine pipe on my 04 with 155 main an 55 pilot.
Works perfectly.. Grin
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Re: any suggestions?
Reply #9 - 04/22/07 at 07:58:14
 
I agree with azjay from the aspect that a rich condition WILL protect an engine in hot weather, but if the smoke and fouling is as bad as Greg says, I would venture that a little rich has migrated to really rich.

In Streece's case, it sounds to me like there may be some vapor-lock concerns.  I'd be concerned that the gas is too hot entering the intake path and boiling before it hits the cylinder due to heat soak will the bike is off/not moving.  This will cause the same kind of symptoms.  When this happens, an even richer condition will overcome the boiling gas problem, allowing the bike to start.  I've never experienced this with my Savage, but had a truck that would do that all the time.  Knew that insulating the carb float bowl from the engine would have fixed it, but never bothered to do that because it was easy to overcome with the choke.

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petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
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Savage_Greg
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Re: any suggestions?
Reply #10 - 04/22/07 at 08:04:06
 
And besides....The Rubber Side Down section is constantly filled with questions about bikes with starting and idling issues.  

Of that group, the majority have a modified exhaust.  Of that group, the majority have a 155 main jet and 55 pilot.  

Coincidence?  I think so.  

What do new bike owners complain about?  Backfires.

What do they complain about after they fix the backfires?  Idling, stalling, black smoke and dirty plugs....

I also think that people shouldn't just assume that a Harley exhaust is that much freer flowing.  Especially with a stock header.  Got to remember that in most cases,  one HD cylinder is the less than or equal to ours anyway.
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barry68v10
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Re: any suggestions?
Reply #11 - 04/22/07 at 08:09:33
 
Greg, would you agree that a main jet change won't affect starting and idling performance?
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petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
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Savage_Greg
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Re: any suggestions?
Reply #12 - 04/22/07 at 08:09:38
 
Okay.  That's my last rant.  I knew everyone would get their back up and get all defensive without actually looking at the issue.  

After all, no one want to admit they might be over compensating.  That's much harder than changing a jet.

My engine work proves what I state.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: any suggestions?
Reply #13 - 04/22/07 at 08:10:33
 
barry68v10 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:04:
Greg, would you agree that a main jet change won't affect starting and idling performance?


Yes, I agree.  It won't until you dirty your plug and fill the head with carbon.
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Re: any suggestions?
Reply #14 - 04/22/07 at 08:11:58
 
Quote:
no one want to admit they might be over compensating



What exactly are we talkin' about here, Greg?  Wink
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petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
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