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Gasohol Ready? (Read 7 times)
Savage_Rob
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Gasohol Ready?
04/14/07 at 13:41:48
 
What would it take to make the LS650 e85 ready?  Is it just the carb parts that would have a problem or elsewhere in the engine too?  I am using an Amal Mk2 and I've seen where certain parts are available for it for bikes running "alcohol".  I'm not sure it's something I'd want to pursue anyway but I might if it's nothing more than a carb rebuild.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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barry68v10
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Re: Gasohol Ready?
Reply #1 - 04/14/07 at 14:31:35
 
No rubber gas lines, no rubber gaskets in gas tank, i.e. gas cap, petc0ck seal, etc.  I think with the petc0ck conversion and nitrile gaskets you'd be ok there.

Inside the carb, I'm not familiar enough with the make up, but any rubber/softer oil based product will have to go, which there may not be any.

With such a conversion, you'd be perfectly safe running 10.5-11:1 compression.  You could boost compression and cooling effect even more by running straight ethanol (and lower cost fuel, about 80% is fine.)  With no timing/compression mods your fuel economy will suffer, but 2 points extra compression would bring that back, however you'd be unable to run pump gasoline if you optimized for ethanol.

One main change that would need to be made in the carb is much richer jetting.  You need approximately 10-15% richer jetting, but Lancer's carb tuning steps would dial you in perfectly.  If  your currently running a 150 main, I'd suggest starting with a 165 and tune from there.  Although maybe a 160 would work fine with E85.

I tried to be comprehensive here, but actual changes may be significantly less involved.  You'd probably be ok just changing out the fuel line and re-jetting.  As other gaskets dissolve over time, they could be replaced...

Hope this helps.   Grin
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petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
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barry68v10
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Re: Gasohol Ready?
Reply #2 - 04/14/07 at 14:33:57
 
Oh, to answer the MAIN part of your question...

You don't NEED to rebuild any engine parts to run E85, only to run it at peak efficiency.
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petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Gasohol Ready?
Reply #3 - 04/14/07 at 20:53:07
 
Thanks for the input.  Yeah, I'd already thought about fuel lines and gaskets dealing directly with fuel, as well as certain carb parts.  I'm running an Amal Mk2 carb and its jet sizes are wholly different than
those of the Mikuni but I get the point.  I hadn't thought about rejetting but it makes perfect sense.  I don't think I want to alter compression though I may consider one of Lancer's performance cams.  I'd like to keep it as multi-fuel as possible.  It's easy enough to swap jets in this carb.  I doubt I'd even bother with a dial-a-jet but it's a thought.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Gasohol Ready?
Reply #4 - 04/16/07 at 05:30:53
 
Does everyone else pretty much agree with that?  The rubber gaskets on the petc0ck and gas cap, the fuel line (and I would do the vacuum line too), parts of the carb (including larger jets) are pretty much all that's necessary to be able to run e85?  That would enable me to run the everyday stuff that is "up to 10% ethanol" and, if I wanted, e85 with a rejet/retune (which takes like 15 minutes).  I'm thinking I also need to swap out my plastic inline fuel filter for a glass or aluminum version.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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Re: Gasohol Ready?
Reply #5 - 04/16/07 at 06:33:44
 
For sure don't run it without an inline filter - It wouldn't suprise me to see unexpect bits erode - like the rubber tip of the float needle.
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Gasohol Ready?
Reply #6 - 04/16/07 at 10:23:17
 
There is a fuel filter in the Amal Mk2 itself and it's one of the parts included in the alcohol conversion kit.  I intend to get a separate inline version that is alcohol tolerant to replace the inline filter I currently use.  I think I should probably also look at replacing the rubber mounting flange that attaches the carb to the cylinder head.  All of this is assuming I decide to actually do this.  One article I've found is below.  It's an old article but I think the idea for the fuel preheater is a thing of beauty because of its simplicity.  Another is general stuff on auto engine conversion.

Cornfed Cruiser

Converting your engine
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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barry68v10
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Re: Gasohol Ready?
Reply #7 - 04/16/07 at 16:26:34
 
Rob, I'm glad you posted the conversion link.  I'll take this time to tell EVERYONE...

If you make your own fuel out of alcohol, don't waste your time and money making 200 proof alcohol!  There's no good reason to mix alcohol and gasoline.  An engine can easily be converted to run on 140-170 proof alcohol with no problem.  And like I said before, it will have higher octane, and run cooler than if you mix it with gasoline.  Think of it as FREE WATER INJECTION.  Anybody remember the glory days of water injected hot rods?   Grin  Back then, anyone could make enough power to blow their engine up  Grin Grin Grin
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petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
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barry68v10
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Re: Gasohol Ready?
Reply #8 - 04/16/07 at 16:30:02
 
The first link is good too!  As I've said before, propane, natural gas, and alcohol are all far superior internal combustion engine fuels to gasoline!  

The only advantage gasoline has is storage capacity, it has the most BTU's per gallon.
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Gasohol Ready?
Reply #9 - 04/17/07 at 11:36:30
 
barry68v10 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:04:
The only advantage gasoline has is storage capacity, it has the most BTU's per gallon.

Aye.  From what I've been reading, I can expect it to get about 10%-15% less mileage but cost about 25% less.  I haven't checked the prices in my area but if I convert mine, I could still run gasoline also.  I basically have to change the jets.  I don't think the preheater element would be a problem with gas but it would be simple enough to bypass it.  The main problem would be the decreased range on a tankful of alcohol but in town that's not really a problem.  At this point I'm down to two things.  The first is that I think I might be advised to use a tank coating to inhibit potential rust caused by the moisture in alcohol.  The second is my major roadblock; the plastic parts and diaphragm of the petc0ck.  I'm not quite sure how to handle that except possibly an entirely new petc0ck.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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Re: Gasohol Ready?
Reply #10 - 04/17/07 at 11:43:42
 
Aint putting any of that crap in ANY of my bikes. Period.

We had a test car at work here, all setup for E85. No power, and horrible fuel economy. Smoked all the time, and the engine failed at 14,000 miles.

I'll stick to 93 octane, use it in all my bikes, and never had any sort of fuel related issue.
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barry68v10
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Re: Gasohol Ready?
Reply #11 - 04/17/07 at 17:11:51
 
Quote:
No power, and horrible fuel economy. Smoked all the time, and the engine failed at 14,000 miles.


Filling the crankcase with oil can solve that problem  Tongue

Bottom line is, those two facts have nothing to do with each other (car converted to ethanol vs. no power, horrible economy, smoke.)

By ALL accounts alcohol burns cleaner, provides smoother power and can produce lots more power if you have the CR to use it.  Did I mention Dragsters and other race applications use alcohol?  Also, vehicles in Brazil (and other countries) use it (alcohol) and get fairly long life out of their engines despite lack of the regular mnx most of our cars enjoy in the US and Europe.
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barry68v10
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Re: Gasohol Ready?
Reply #12 - 04/17/07 at 17:12:50
 
Other than that LTrider, use what works for you  Wink
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Re: Gasohol Ready?
Reply #13 - 06/03/07 at 00:25:43
 
At this point, I am planning on slowly making the necessary changes to my Savage to make her a "flex-fuel" vehicle.  Then I'll be able to run any combination of ethanol and/or gasoline.  While ethanol provides a cleaner burning, cooler running engine with lower emissions, the downsides are that you get less mileage and the jetting has to change because alcohol needs to be a richer mix.  Most flex-fuel vehicles use electronic sensors and fuel injection to deal with mixture changes as fuels vary.  I plan to try to use a Dial-A-Jet to allow me to vary jetting for different mixes instead of manually swapping main jets.  It's still manual but faster and easier than jet swapping each time I switch fuels.  If that doesn't work, I'll just have to go the manual route if I change fuels.  A TourTank is part of the plan because of the decreased mileage of alcohol.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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Re: Gasohol Ready?
Reply #14 - 06/03/07 at 01:15:01
 
Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:06:
any combination of methanol and/or gasoline.  


methanol or ethanol?

rather big difference
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