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NOT a battery question? (Read 29 times)
Savage_Greg
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #15 - 04/17/07 at 11:49:16
 
skatnbnc wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:04:
Okay guys - the same problem is BACK!  ???

I added distilled water to the battery (which it needed) last Saturday. Bike started right up and has been run twice since then.

Rode to work this morning, rode to an errand, came out 5 minutes later and the bike would not start.

Same symptoms as before: all lights work, horn, flashers fine. Choke adjusted, bike still very warm from being run a few minutes earlier. No starter action.

Waited 5 minutes, tried again, nothing. Waited 5 more minutes, bike started right up no hesitation. What the??

Hmmm. Anyone have any OTHER ideas as to the problem or what I need to check?

You're right, the same problem is back, but I don't think the battery was the problem to begin with...

It's an '06?  Too new to have a battery problem really (if everything is done right).

Pardon me, but let's go back to the beginning.  Are you sure that you've read and understand your owners manual and how to operate the bike?

A problem battery isn't gonna get a recharge after sitting for 10-15 minutes (while trying to start it, checking the horn and lights, and anything else)

What are you not doing?  Or what are you doing that you don't realize?  I'm sure that when this happens, you are doing everything imaginable and when it starts, you can't really remember what you did.

Let's check your understanding of these...

- Kill switch
- Clutch switch
- Side stand switch
- Neutral indicator
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #16 - 04/17/07 at 12:12:08
 
  This might be helpful, if I start my bike with the kickstand down some times the  
Decompression Solenoid' will hit but the starter will not so I have learned to start it with the stand in the up position and in neutral. With the stand down if I keep hitting it it will eventually start but with the stand up it starts first time everytime. After it starts i can put the stand down if I need to for some reason.
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skatnbnc
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #17 - 04/17/07 at 14:38:03
 
Yes, I too thought I might not be going through the correct starting procedure. I double checked everything, to the point of getting off the bike and starting from ground zero with the manual in hand.

This is exactly what I do:
1. insert key and turn to ON (not Park!)
2. Neutral light comes on (as does headlamp)
3. Pull out choke button
4. Press red kill button to ON position
5. Depress and hold (squeeze) clutch lever
6. Press ignition switch
At this point I either get silence or VROOM.

Mind you all - I have NEVER had it not start from cold first try. This starting issue only shows up after I've been riding and stop, then go back shortly to ride again.

I physically got off the bike and then back on after 10 minutes. Again, I checked ALL the wiring connections thinking it might be a wire getting squished or uncoupled when I sit down. Nada.

I've tried starting withthe kickstand up and down because of that funky button thing on the kickstand that can stall you out if it is not up when you switch from neutral to 1st gear.

There does NOT seem to be any noise when I press the starter button. Not even a click.

As pointed out previously this bike is practically BRAND NEW.  I've ridden weekly from Sept when I purchased it all through the winter.  This starting issue has just begun within the past 4 weeks.  

I'm stumped!  Tongue
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2006 LS650, HD pipe, Tkat fork brace, elkhide handgrips, badge-free zone, gel seat w/riser, silverblue, the one in FRONT of you, flying the Kings Colours
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grandpa
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #18 - 04/17/07 at 15:09:53
 
Let's revisit the battery!!! You say you can't see water. Starts good cold. Won't start when hot. I would say you are on teh verge of complete battery failure because....the battery works fine when cold. When being charged the battery gets hot, especially with low water. It takes just one cell plate to short killing off one cell. thus no start when the battery is hot. The battery cools and the plate unwarps giving you a good battery. Eventually the plate won't unwarp and you will be Fred Flintstoning it!!!. How do I know?? 20 + years of aircraft maintenance and 5 years of running an Autozone store. Have seen the same scenario over and over!!  If you had an older model that kept the headlight on during start you would see the voltage drop under a load. The only way on yours is to hook up a meter. You will have 13.5 volts until you hit the starter. Because the lights don't pull much amps they will look normal. As soon as you hit the starter button the volts will drop way off. Now if I was a betting man..... but I'm not!! Get some water in the battery and sllooowww charge it and you might save it. Best thing is to splurge and go new. You are probably not far away from needing it anyway. Don't work for the 'Zone anymore BTW. Became too much pressure to sell people what they didn't need to help push the stock prices up!!!! I sleep good at night !! Good luck !!!!
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skatnbnc
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #19 - 04/17/07 at 15:18:24
 
After refilling the original battery last Saturday, I CAN see water and it is between the level lines in the view markers.

Is  it worth getting a new battery and installing it to see if this is really the cause?
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #20 - 04/17/07 at 15:44:31
 
I hate to spend your money, that's why I'm not at the 'Zone. Without putting a load test (ie meter and hit the start button, it's really just a real good bet based on what you're describing. Call your local parts stores and see if they can test a lawn mower/ motorcycle battery. I still shop the 'Zone. I see they have all new testing equipment in our area. I haven't had the need to use it yet to check it out. If they can load test the rating on your battery, that would be the best way. may want them to charge it and get it warmed up first. make sure they don't dial in too many amps for the test. If your battery is not bad it will be. Remember they are under pressure to sell, sell, sell. Battery grease, ant-sieze, battery washers at the point of sale. I would rather buy a several year supply in a large can/bottle for just a little more. Excuse me !! I digressed from your battery. If it were me I would buy a new one and eliminate the most likely culprit making sure all the connections are squeaky clean. Had a customer who knew it all insisted his battery connections were clean (they looked pretty good). He changed a starter, alternator, starter solenoid (Ford truck) and still no start. I cleaned his positive terminal that had just a light white film of corrosion inside of the cable next to the post. Outwardly looked great!!. Fired right off. He then wanted to bring all the parts back!!!!! For anybody else I would have done it but he was just so obnoxious I refused. No return on installed electrical parts that are still good!!! Again I digressed.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #21 - 04/17/07 at 15:54:23
 
Maybe you mentioned it and I forgot...

When did you buy this 2006 and how many miles so far?
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Savage_Greg
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #22 - 04/17/07 at 21:38:17
 
skatnbnc wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:04:
Yes, I too thought I might not be going through the correct starting procedure. I double checked everything, to the point of getting off the bike and starting from ground zero with the manual in hand.

This is exactly what I do:
1. insert key and turn to ON (not Park!)
2. Neutral light comes on (as does headlamp)
3. Pull out choke button
4. Press red kill button to ON position
5. Depress and hold (squeeze) clutch lever
6. Press ignition switch
At this point I either get silence or VROOM.

Mind you all - I have NEVER had it not start from cold first try. This starting issue only shows up after I've been riding and stop, then go back shortly to ride again.

I physically got off the bike and then back on after 10 minutes. Again, I checked ALL the wiring connections thinking it might be a wire getting squished or uncoupled when I sit down. Nada.

I've tried starting withthe kickstand up and down because of that funky button thing on the kickstand that can stall you out if it is not up when you switch from neutral to 1st gear.

There does NOT seem to be any noise when I press the starter button. Not even a click.

As pointed out previously this bike is practically BRAND NEW.  I've ridden weekly from Sept when I purchased it all through the winter.  This starting issue has just begun within the past 4 weeks.  

I'm stumped!  Tongue

Okay.  I'm gonna advance your newbie status.  It does seem like you're thinking about all of it very well...Just didn't want you to come back and say, "I forgot the kill switch" Tongue

The bike was new or used in Sept '06, but that still makes no sense for a battery issue.  You should get about 3 years out of a stock wet cell....

You filled the battery last weekend and it worked better for a while...

No click or nothing...a low battery will usually give you a click at the solenoid, relay or starter.  Nothing isn't normal (if that makes sense)...this is the key part.  

<Both our batteries finally expired just this last winter, so I'm pretty fresh on that sound.  Both were over 3 years old though>

What about the previous owner?  Did he do anything to the bike at all?  Any accessories or lights?  

Do you always have a neutral light when you think it should be on?

Have you looked real close to make sure the clutch lever switch is connected correctly?

Have you looked real close at the side stand switch to be sure it works on the side stand correctly?

Are you sure about the ignition key switch position every time (have to ask)?

Battery makes no sense to me.  It has to be something else....
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #23 - 04/17/07 at 22:27:35
 
skatnbnc wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:04:
Is  it worth getting a new battery and installing it to see if this is really the cause?

No it is not - it is worth buying a ~$10-$15 digital multimeter.
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skatnbnc
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #24 - 04/18/07 at 06:14:16
 
>>What about the previous owner?  Did he do anything to the bike at all?  Any accessories or lights?<<
No accessories (other than the aforementioned HD pipe), no other changes. She barely put 700 miles on it, then bought a HD because she wanted something more 'substantial'.

>>Do you always have a neutral light when you think it should be on?<<
YES.

>>Have you looked real close to make sure the clutch lever switch is connected correctly?<<
YES. In fact I pulled the rubber cover off to make sure it was good there too.

>>Have you looked real close at the side stand switch to be sure it works on the side stand correctly?<<
Yep. No problems there.

>>Are you sure about the ignition key switch position every time (have to ask)?<<
YES because it is such a pain to have that NOT handy feature of the parking lite.

Is it time to go to the stealership? (please say no...)  Embarrassed
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #25 - 04/18/07 at 08:41:14
 
Took me a while to go to all the posts, but here's my 2 bits:

Battery with low liquidlevel,  filled up with water and recharged.

Maybe the battery is f$$$d
The starter or the kill-switch button makes NO contact

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Savage_Greg
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #26 - 04/18/07 at 10:12:47
 
Dealer is the very last option.  We don't want to send a "girl" in there alone Tongue

2 points to get clear here:

+++++++++++++++

How much water did you have to add to the battery?  

Were any of the cells below the "low" level line on the side?  

Or did you just add a little bit to each cell?

Did you really feel like the battery needed water after you went through all that trouble?

+++++++++++

Did you say that there was NO CLICK OR SOUND, at all, of any kind, from anywhere when this problem happens?

NONE?
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #27 - 04/18/07 at 10:44:47
 
Greg - can't judge a battery by it's age. Seen too many people change everything else because the battery was only a year old. I sold auto batteries made by Johnson Controls (Every AutoZone and Diehard battery among  other brand name batteries). Reputation to be the best battery in the business. There is a reason there is a warranty on batteries. Stacks of plates and solder joints all subject to failure. A battery that is allowed to run an extended time low on water is subject to early failure. I fully agree that trouble shooting should be first!! However the symptoms are a possible battery shorting out when warm. Have seen it way to much.
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skatnbnc
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #28 - 04/18/07 at 11:14:59
 
I went and purchased a voltage meter a few minutes ago. (no problems starting for that errand, go figure)  I am assuming I need to take the battery out again and test it, or not take it out? What is the best way to test this? And I know someone mentioned what the meter should read, and now I cannot find that post.  Tongue
- - - - - - - -
>>How much water did you have to add to the battery?<<
About 2 turkey baster full for 6 cells. (3/4 cup total maybe?)

>>Were any of the cells below the "low" level line on the side?<<
YES.

>>Or did you just add a little bit to each cell?<<
YES i added some to each cell to bring them all up to the midline level marker.  Some cells needed more water than others.

>>Did you really feel like the battery needed water after you went through all that trouble?<<
Yes because about 3 out of 6 cells were really low (below the LOW line) and the rest were close.

>>Did you say that there was NO CLICK OR SOUND, at all, of any kind, from anywhere when this problem happens? NONE? <<
No sound. Nada. No click, no noise like it makes when it decides to actually start (i can HEAR the click before the starter then - just a split second)
- - - - - - - - - -

Soooo depending on the meter reading, I might need a new battery. I did save the weblink you guys gave to the enclosed cell type.
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Savage_Rob
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Re: NOT a battery question?
Reply #29 - 04/18/07 at 11:20:27
 
skatnbnc wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:04:
I went and purchased a voltage meter a few minutes ago. (no problems starting for that errand, go figure)  I am assuming I need to take the battery out again and test it, or not take it out? What is the best way to test this? And I know someone mentioned what the meter should read, and now I cannot find that post.  Tongue


Yes, but a multimeter won't do it.  It should be load tested and if you don't have a load tester, take it to either Sears or Autozone.  They'll test it for free.
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