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chain drive conversion (Read 179 times)
barry68v10
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #60 - 02/19/07 at 15:04:52
 
Quote:
if you can find a 44 rear it would be a 14.5% change.


Or you could just go with that 40 rear... Grin
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Hutch
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #61 - 02/19/07 at 16:22:58
 
barry68v10 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
Or you could just go with that 40 rear... Grin

I'm afraid I would put to much strain on the clutch and turn it into a real dog on take off., if I went with the 40 tooth. That would be a 2.35 ratio. Since we are talking a motor with only 30Hp. Like LANCER said you need horse power with that low of a ratio. That would be a 25% change in gearing and I think it would be a little too much for the Savage. If I could find a 44, it would be 12.5%,The 45 is 10% The 44 would be close to 600RPM less at 80mph, and the 45 works out to about520 RPM less at 80mph. It would still have decent take off with either of them and increase top end buy about20-30mph , which would put me over the 100 mark. I don't care about top end, I just want less r's at 75-85mph. While I'm talking.......are you still thinking about the RE Bullet????
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barry68v10
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #62 - 02/19/07 at 16:30:57
 
Yep.  Wifey's not to warm on the idea though  Grin

I think I like the riding position and look of the Bullet about as well as any bike I've seen recently.  Are they geared higher than the Savage?
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barry68v10
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #63 - 02/19/07 at 16:36:32
 
How much HP does a typical Savage have at 3000, 4000 and 5000 RPMs?  Based on some very rough calculations, I think you only need about 20-25 hp to run 75-80 mph.  If that's true, you just need to pick the ratio that gives you the power you'd need to run at that speed.  You would get better mpg, but you'd also top out at that speed in "no wind" conditions.  You could also calculate a 10-20% "cushion."  I don't remember seeing any stock HP curves for the Savage, any help here?
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barry68v10
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #64 - 02/19/07 at 16:37:47
 
One other consideration for taller gearing, if you need to go faster, you can always downshift.
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #65 - 02/19/07 at 16:59:01
 
barry68v10 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
One other consideration for taller gearing, if you need to go faster, you can always downshift.

Yeh the RE is about $1000 more than the Savage too...makes for a hard bargaining point with the wife. The gearing is a low 1st, tall2-4 and a real tall 5th, it's a real overdrive. That's how they get70mpg. You really have to wind it out in 1st before you hit 2nd, that's how much the change is. I can do 75-80 on my RE and it is only 22hp. I found a chart once for the dyno test on a Savage but can't remember what site itwas on, I'll check this week and see if I can run across again. Good luck with the negotiations about the RE.
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #66 - 02/19/07 at 17:14:10
 
I don't understand...

If a bare a$$ed cyclist (I mean pedal) needs 3/4 HP to sustain 55 mph.  Why does a motorcycle need so much more to go 70-80 mph.  I had VW van, can't of had more than 30 HP, I could easily do 70-80 anytime but uphill.  My savage will do 80 uphill and accelerate to get there.  If I were you I'd start looking for a tranny out of a '96.

And memo to self... freeway test drive mandatory! Grin
No grin, no buy!
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Hutch
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #67 - 02/19/07 at 17:50:55
 
verslagen1 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
And memo to self... freeway test drive mandatory! Grin
No grin, no buy!


Sure would be nice to get a dealer to let you take one for a test ride. No such luck. I was happy with it because as soon as I hit the road I could feel the acceleration. I broke it in for 1000 miles with all the mods for breathing done at 100 ran great. The first time I decided to hit the highway, i lasted for 10 miles and bailed before I got ran over, or blew it up trying not to get run over. Talking about test rides my sons father inlaw couldn' believe it when the Harley dealer told him he couldn't take a test ride, but he could rent one for a day($90), but they didn't have his model for rent. NICE SKAM. The guy has road for 10 years.
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barry68v10
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #68 - 02/19/07 at 18:47:02
 
Quote:
If a bare a$$ed cyclist (I mean pedal) needs 3/4 HP to sustain 55 mph.  Why does a motorcycle need so much more to go 70-80 mph.  I had VW van, can't of had more than 30 HP, I could easily do 70-80 anytime but uphill.


Drag is a funny thing.  A bare cyclist has a much better coefficient of drag (Cd) and less frontal area than a motorcycle.  Actually, a VW van has a much better Cd than a motorcycle but more frontal area, so apparently those two things cancel out (roughly).  A really aerodynamic car (Cd~.3) and relatively small frontal area only needs between 8 and 12 hp to maintain 55 mph, however it may need about 18 hp to maintain 65 mph.

I've posted the equation somewhere on here before, but basically drag is a function of Cd, frontal area, and velocity squared.  Cars have a definite advantage in the Cd department, while motorcycles have an advantage with frontal area.  However, the equation gives only an approximation, but actual testing is the only accurate method.

If you remember some of the first motorcycle speed trials, the rider wore a speedo and pointy helmet and laid on the bike with his feet straight out the back.  Looked funny, but improved Cd and decreased frontal area...
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petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
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Tom_R
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #69 - 02/19/07 at 19:00:17
 
You guys should check here for sprockets,
they have them for just about everything.

http://www.sprocketspecialists.com/
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Savage_Greg
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #70 - 02/19/07 at 20:40:12
 
tbalam wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
Nice to hear from someone back home. I get homesick all the time here, It's all brown all the time.


Well, as you know, this time of year is wet all the time.  But the summer sure will be great Smiley
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Savage_Greg
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #71 - 02/19/07 at 20:43:58
 
Hutch wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
I'm afraid I would put to much strain on the clutch and turn it into a real dog on take off., if I went with the 40 tooth. That would be a 2.35 ratio. Since we are talking a motor with only 30Hp. Like LANCER said you need horse power with that low of a ratio. That would be a 25% change in gearing and I think it would be a little too much for the Savage. If I could find a 44, it would be 15%,The 45 is 12.5% The 44 would be close to 600RPM less at 80mph, and the 45 works out to about520 RPM less at 80mph. It would still have decent take off with either of them and increase top end buy about20-30mph , which would put me over the 100 mark. I don't care about top end, I just want less r's at 75-85mph. While I'm talking.......are you still thinking about the RE Bullet????


How about valve adjusts, new plugs, etc?
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Hutch
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #72 - 02/20/07 at 11:51:54
 
Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
How about valve adjusts, new plugs, etc?


All covered, BTW, Greg, if you go with a 16/41 it will end up with 2.56:1, almost the same as the 17/44 (2.58:1) That gives you that 12.5% change. Those sprockets are available at the link that you looked up the 17/45(10%) sprockets on.
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barry68v10
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #73 - 02/20/07 at 14:09:25
 
In case anyone cares Shocked

Quote:
Greg, if you go with a 16/41 it will end up with 2.56:1, almost the same as the 17/44 (2.58:1)


17/44 is better than a 16/41.  You want to go with the largest front sprocket that will work for your application.  A 20 tooth front would be ideal, but I haven't been able to find one for the Savage.  I.e. if your looking for a 2.56:1 a 20/51 would be the best from a design standpoint.
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Hutch
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #74 - 02/20/07 at 15:01:35
 
barry68v10 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
In case anyone cares Shocked


17/44 is better than a 16/41.  You want to go with the largest front sprocket that will work for your application.  A 20 tooth front would be ideal, but I haven't been able to find one for the Savage.  I.e. if your looking for a 2.56:1 a 20/51 would be the best from a design standpoint.


Barry, I know what you mean, it's easier to throw a chain and you get more chain slap. You really got to be on top of the chain adjustment. That is why I keep trying to find a SET from a company. All I found was one company with steel(aluminum sucks), and they don't have the 44, just the 16/41. I am going to try bikebandit and see if they have them. I had this problem with the Triumph chopper I built when I put a complete Harley dresser tire, rim and brake assembly on the back. I ended up with a Sportster rear sprocket to get the right ratio with the stock Triumph trans sprocket. I had to space the rear sprocket over cause the offset was wrong but it worked out great. Hope I get lucky and find what i'm looking for.!!! I think the reason you won't find a front in 20 is lack of room. I believe that is why the German conversion has a 17 front. Off to bikebandit I go!!!!
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