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chain drive conversion (Read 179 times)
steveh
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chain drive conversion
02/15/07 at 16:29:43
 
Some of you may be interested in the chain drive conversion on the 87 I have used as a donor bike:
http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/802548/
http://www.bikepics.com/pictures/802549/
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Hutch
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #1 - 02/16/07 at 10:36:12
 
What did the sprocket come off from? Any mods to make it fit? How many teeth? Will it line up with motor sprocket when installed? I still want to change mine to chain so I can get some top end out of it. 80mph and redlined doesn't get it!!!!If I can come up with something other than the German kit I''l go for it in a heartbeat. The German kit would give me chain drive, but it only slightly changes the top end speed. Maybe 2-3 mph. Not worth the money. If going from a 152.5 main jet to a 155 or bigger jet doesn't get me any more top end, it's back to changing to chain and sprocket ratio's.
What I'm really trying to do is get less rpm at 80mph.
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allan
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #2 - 02/17/07 at 11:30:25
 
Hutch I posted this once before in tech section,

I have a 400 savage which is standard chain drive when the sprockets wor out i got new one for a gs550 you can also use the gt750 for diffrent ratio at the back,
you need the spacer that sits behind the front sprocket on gs 550 or ls400 to make it all line up,

hope this gives you some ideas,

allan.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #3 - 02/17/07 at 23:12:51
 
What is the ratio of your front and rear sprockets?
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Hutch
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #4 - 02/18/07 at 07:47:03
 
Allan wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
Hutch I posted this once before in tech section,

I have a 400 savage which is standard chain drive when the sprockets wor out i got new one for a gs550 you can also use the gt750 for diffrent ratio at the back,
you need the spacer that sits behind the front sprocket on gs 550 or ls400 to make it all line up,

hope this gives you some ideas,

allan.


Thanks Allan, I don't know how I missed it in the tech section. My only problem with the S-40 I have is way to many rpms at 75-80 mph. I don't like running a motor at that high of a rpm for any distance. I would gladly give up some of the over abundant acceleration I have for  less rpm at 75-80.  Thanks again!!! Now all I have to do is order some sprockets and a chain before spring.
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barry68v10
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #5 - 02/18/07 at 08:32:30
 
Hutch, I think the best you can do is goto bikebandit.com and get a 17 tooth front for a gs550 spoke wheel 1980 and a 40 tooth rear for the same year and model.  You can play around with spacers to see what will work best for alignment.  This will give you a 2.35:1 ratio.  Can't find a way to go taller than that, but that's pretty tall.  I'm interested to see how this whole thing pans out Grin

Disclaimer:  Since I haven't personally done the mod I can't verify this will work, but lots of folks seem to think it's close to a "bolt-up" operation.
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petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
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Hutch
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #6 - 02/18/07 at 08:53:33
 
barry68v10 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
Hutch, I think the best you can do is goto bikebandit.com and get a 17 tooth front for a gs550 spoke wheel 1980 and a 40 tooth rear for the same year and model.  You can play around with spacers to see what will work best for alignment.  This will give you a 2.35:1 ratio.  Can't find a way to go taller than that, but that's pretty tall.  I'm interested to see how this whole thing pans out Grin

Disclaimer:  Since I haven't personally done the mod I can't verify this will work, but lots of folks seem to think it's close to a "bolt-up" operation.
 
Since the German kit is a 17 and a 50 and works out to almost the same ratio as the Stock belt drive, I figured I would go with a 17 and a 45-47. I don't want to turn it in to a complete dog on take off and acceleration. Even a 500-800rpm drop at 80mph would make me feel better. The stock ratio is about 2.94. 17/47 would be 2.76, 17/46 would be 2.70, 17/45 would be 2.64. I'm thinking maybe a 44 might be close to 500 rpm not sure.
Anybody know the rpm drop from a stock 2.94 ratio to a  2.59 ratio???
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babbalou
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #7 - 02/18/07 at 09:09:20
 
Here's a handy tool to get ratios & rpms for the changes: http://www.kaila.net/tl125/gearing.html
As for the lube, I've read a lot of good reviews on Dupont Teflon Mult-Use dry wax lubricant, which you can find in most hardware stores for about 1/2 the price of chain lube at the stealership.
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Hutch
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #8 - 02/18/07 at 09:16:03
 
babbalou wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
Here's a handy tool to get ratios & rpms for the changes: http://www.kaila.net/tl125/gearing.html
As for the lube, I've read a lot of good reviews on Dupont Teflon Mult-Use dry wax lubricant, which you can find in most hardware stores for about 1/2 the price of chain lube at the stealership.

I saw that post for the lube too. PJ1 blue label is quite good also. I'll check out the link. THANKS!!!
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #9 - 02/18/07 at 09:22:40
 
Quote:
Since the German kit is a 17 and a 50 and works out to almost the same ratio as the Stock belt drive, I figured I would go with a 17 and a 45-47. I don't want to turn it in to a complete dog on take off and acceleration. Even a 500-800rpm drop at 80mph would make me feel better.

How well does your bike accelerate now in 2nd gear?  No matter what you do, it won't be worse than that...

17/47 would be a pretty small change, you'd get that much from a rear tire change if you stuff a 150-90-15 back there, not even a 10% change.  Most of the "overdrive" kits found on scootworks.com feature a final ratio between 2.2:1 and 2.56:1.  That seems to be the sweet spot for most v-twin cruisers looking for a "highway gear."  

But....that's just my 2 cents and probably not worth as much  Grin  Keep us posted how the project goes.
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petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
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Hutch
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #10 - 02/18/07 at 09:39:19
 
barry68v10 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
How well does your bike accelerate now in 2nd gear?  No matter what you do, it won't be worse than that...

17/47 would be a pretty small change, you'd get that much from a rear tire change if you stuff a 150-90-15 back there, not even a 10% change.  Most of the "overdrive" kits found on scootworks.com feature a final ratio between 2.2:1 and 2.56:1.  That seems to be the sweet spot for most v-twin cruisers looking for a "highway gear."  

But....that's just my 2 cents and probably not worth as much  Grin  Keep us posted how the project goes.

I just went to the link and found out if I go with a 17/44 I would drop 586 rpms at 80mph, and that was saying that with the German stock ratio I was only running 5000rpm like LANCER  was suggesting. Even more if I am running at 6500rpm and 80mph.  The 17/44 would give me that 2.58:1 sweet spot. As far as stock gearing right now, it takes off like a rocket. I can take off in 2nd with no problem or clutch slip. And I mean a hard take off in 2nd. No problem. Like I said I think they changed the gearing again when they changed to S-40. Why else would all the S-40's top out so quick with the same mods as all the older models??? THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO EVERYBODY!!!
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Hutch
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #11 - 02/18/07 at 10:39:55
 
Here is the break down:------------------ (new ratio)
(stock ratio)--------------------------------17/45 sprocket
50@3111-------------------------------50@2799=312lessrpm
60@3733-------------------------------60@3359=374rpmless
70@4355-------------------------------70@3919=436lessrpm
80@4977-------------------------------80@4479=518lessrpm
90@5600-------------------------------90@5040=560lessrpm
100@6222---------------------------100@5600=622lessrpm
105@6500---------------------------105@5850=650lessrpm

That leaves the new ratio with 650RPM left until the red line, and you are already doing 105mph.
SOUNDS GOOD TO ME. Now if it works in the real world is another story.Since my motor will be running at lower rpm most of the time I think I will stick with my 152.5 main jet and see what happens with the chain conversion.I should get a lot better gas milage(60+?). I know the engine won't wear out as fast, with fewer rpm's for the same distance.I'll just keep playing with rear sprockets until I get a good compromise of acceleration and less RPM at 80mph. For anyone in terested. For every tooth that you add or subtract on the rear sprocket, you will have a change of 2.5% in your speed and rpm. For every tooth you add or subtract on the front sprocket it is about a 5-6% change. A 44 tooth rear sprocket would even be better, if one could be found. That would be nearly 600RPM less at 80MPH
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Savage_Greg
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #12 - 02/18/07 at 11:52:02
 
Don't you have to remove the front pulley on the Savage to remove the belt?  A chain would be nice because of the master link.  What is the largest front sprocket that will fit?

I'm rusty with chains, too.  Haven't messed with them since dirt bike days.  What size chain?
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Hutch
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #13 - 02/18/07 at 12:07:08
 
Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
Don't you have to remove the front pulley on the Savage to remove the belt?  A chain would be nice because of the master link.  What is the largest front sprocket that will fit?

I'm rusty with chains, too.  Haven't messed with them since dirt bike days.  What size chain?

I like the pun there Greg, RUSTY CHAIN, The biggest sprocket that will fit is probably the 17. I suppose that is why the germans chose it. A 530 chain should be the right one if I remember correctly. Yeah that is what I like about chain, no shock removal, no cover removal, no pulley removal, just put in nuetral and feed it through, insert master,adjust, tighten axle,BACK ON THE ROAD.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: chain drive conversion
Reply #14 - 02/18/07 at 12:56:50
 
I remember "way back when..." in the dirt ridin' days, that my chains never wore out.  I always kept an old can of oil and I'd just drop the whole thing in to soak between rides.

It was always those expensive aluminum sprockets that got all pointy in a short period of time  Angry
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