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did the ton (Read 42 times)
Savage_Greg
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Re: did the ton
Reply #45 - 02/17/07 at 08:07:57
 
Doing the math again based on my tach: 6500 rpms = 92.8 mph (and the speedo probably reads on the high side)

1986-1988 - 4 speed ratios:
1st- 2.214
2nd-1.500
3rd- 1.095
4th- .875

1995-2005 - 5 speed ratios;
1st- 2.333
2nd-1.578
3rd-1.142
4th-.956
5th-.884

Primary reduction ratio:

'86 -'88 - 1.88 with the gears 68 and 36.  

After that - 1.81 with the gears 67 and 37.
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LANCER
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Re: did the ton
Reply #46 - 02/17/07 at 08:54:26
 
Quote:
 1stgear,35mph@6500rpm, 2nd gear,55mph@6500rpm, 3rd gear 75mph@6500rpm, 4th gear 90mph@6500rpm, 5th gear100mph@6500rpm.  


You got it, at least for stock rubber it is witin  +/- a couple of numbers.
My last test runs with the Veypor doing the data work for rpm, mph, etc, and a new 140/90-15 tire show slightly higher speeds for the given rpm.  
 I was showing right at 3050 +/- 10 rpm at 50 mph on the Veypor.  It uses engine rpm, time, distance (measured to o.1") to calculate actual speed and rpm.   That will yield 106.5 mph at 6500 rpm.

50 @ 3050 rpm
60 @ 3660 rpm
70 @ 4270 rpm
80 @ 4880 rpm
90 @ 5490 rpm
100 @ 6100 rpm
105 @ 6405 rpm
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Hutch
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Re: did the ton
Reply #47 - 02/17/07 at 09:47:16
 
Greg and LANCER, first off thank you for all the figures. I am either being paranoid about the r's in the first 4 gears going buy sound only(no tach), or something. But in top gear with the throttle as far as it will go, I have 80mph and no more left. It just sets at 80mph. I have even checked to see if the brakes were dragging.That's why the 90mph in 4th just about floored me when I read it!!! Like I said it's a rocket, for a 1/4 mile. A reasonable "sounding" rpm for me in 5th is 65mph. At that speed you get run over in the slow lane by semi's in Michigan. If even bigger jets(155,157.5) or changing the timeing doesn't work, I'm back to chain and playing with sprockets. Can't think of anything else to do.
I did notice one thing from LANCERS figures. First they fall right in line with what the factory says. When verslagen1 said at 77mph he was doing 5000rpm it was darn close to the LANCER figures. Greg seems to be about 400rpm's too high. for his speed.(speedo/tach error maybe) at 50mph.  I don't care about having a 100 top end, but if that is the only way I can run 75-80 at the same rpm I have now at 65mph, that is what I have to do. In most of my drag cars I had a quick change rear end so I could drag at the strip or change it out for the street. One more reason I like chain and sprockets, I can do the same thing. Something is definately going on with the s-40's though, and it doesn't smell good.
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Re: did the ton
Reply #48 - 02/17/07 at 12:35:00
 
Hutch wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
...A reasonable "sounding" rpm for me in 5th is 65mph. At that speed you get run over in the slow lane by semi's in Michigan....Can't think of anything else to do. ...



Two alternatives come to mind,
1. stay off multilane roads,
2. get a different MC,
both work different people choose different routes.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: did the ton
Reply #49 - 02/17/07 at 14:09:09
 
Hutch wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
Greg and LANCER, first off thank you for all the figures. I am either being paranoid about the r's in the first 4 gears going buy sound only(no tach), or something. But in top gear with the throttle as far as it will go, I have 80mph and no more left. It just sets at 80mph. I have even checked to see if the brakes were dragging.That's why the 90mph in 4th just about floored me when I read it!!! Like I said it's a rocket, for a 1/4 mile. A reasonable "sounding" rpm for me in 5th is 65mph. At that speed you get run over in the slow lane by semi's in Michigan. If even bigger jets(155,157.5) or changing the timeing doesn't work, I'm back to chain and playing with sprockets. Can't think of anything else to do.
I did notice one thing from LANCERS figures. First they fall right in line with what the factory says. When verslagen1 said at 77mph he was doing 5000rpm it was darn close to the LANCER figures. Greg seems to be about 400rpm's too high. for his speed.(speedo/tach error maybe) at 50mph.  I don't care about having a 100 top end, but if that is the only way I can run 75-80 at the same rpm I have now at 65mph, that is what I have to do. In most of my drag cars I had a quick change rear end so I could drag at the strip or change it out for the street. One more reason I like chain and sprockets, I can do the same thing. Something is definately going on with the s-40's though, and it doesn't smell good.

I hate to think that my tach is off that much, but I noticed the difference too.  I'll be checking more closely next time...
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Re: did the ton
Reply #50 - 02/17/07 at 14:28:35
 
A Savage in proper mechanical condition, in stock form will usually not go much more than 80-83 mph.  That is what mine did when I first got it.  At anything above 75 it sounded like it was straining for every ounce of breath and each additional mph.  It was weak to be sure.

With just a muffler swap and a proper jetting change with good tuning, it will run much much better.  When I did mine, and this was done in a few stages as I was testing each change along the way, the performance from idle to top end improved noticeably.  Top speed jumped to 90+ and low/midrange power was significantly improved.  Besides, the sound of the trumpet muffler was a welcome change from the putputput stock sound.  It was a cheap version so the glass packing burned out quickly and the sound got too loud and harsh.  So I began the search for the perfect muffler.

As posted earlier, stock gearing with stock rubber the bike was geared for 100 mph @ 6500 rpm.
It would in no way have the power to pull 100 without quality modifications to the intake, carb and exhaust.

Before I started my rebuild I could expect to get up to 95-98 on most any day, but to bust 100 it needed to be a nice day in the 60-70's and low humidity.  That is what it seemed to like.  Throw in a little carb tweaking for that particular day to get things nice and crisp and then it would want to RUN WITH THE DOGS! My best run was at 105, but only did it once.  It has hit the 100-102 range a couple of other times.


Changing the gearing will get you a lower rpm at highway cruising speeds but will not increase top end unless you can get 50+ hp from it with some serious engine mod's.
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Re: did the ton
Reply #51 - 02/17/07 at 17:08:32
 
LANCER, I have done most everything that you said to my bike. I plan on getting larger yet jets to see if that helps. If not then it is chain and sprockets. That is where I have to disagree with your statement about horse power. As I said I have a 05 Royal Enfield 500cc Bullet. The only change I made was going from a 115main jet to a 120, Pulled off the stock Muffler, pulled the cat converter out of the head pipe and replaced it with a Thunder Monster power cone, slipped on a shortened upswept fish tail straight pipe with a 8" baffle I made out of two 4" baffles and tweeked the timing. This bike is rated at 22hp. Itwill cruise on the interstate at 75mph all day with out over revving. It is not fast acceleration wise, but it cruises at about 4500rpm at 75mph. Maxed at 5400rpm is close to 80mph. The RE weighs in at 370lbs, 20 lbs more than the Savage, and about 10hp less. I feel safer on the interstate with the RE than my S-40. At least it doesn't sound like it's gonna blow. I hope the jets work on the S-40, cause I do like the bike, just not happy anything over 65mph. The thing is even if I get it to do over 80, it still doesn't change the rpm problem, only a chain and sprockets will do that on mine. I will find out when I get a tach and see if it is running 6500rpm at 80mph in 5th.  

I knew I forgot something, My 500 RE has 12" apehangers and I set bolt upright at 70-75mph.Not to mention that other than a 5 speed instead of a four,  the motor is the same internally as the 1955 model it is styled after. Not bad for 52 year old technology.The 06-07 has electronic ignition. My 05 still has points, and a kick or electric start. 70 mpg is also very cool. If I want to turn it into a 535cc with about 44hp I can buy the parts from the dealer for about $1500, and still get 55-60 mpg. I would like to get MY S-40 to run on the interstate like my 22hp RE. Also, any time you change the gear ratio in a car rearend or the gear ratio by sprockets /pulleys on a bike you WILL change the top speed unless we're talking a 5-10hp vehicle that can't handle it on the low end take off. That is why a taller tire gives you more top end. You basicaly changed the gear ratio.
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Re: did the ton
Reply #52 - 02/17/07 at 22:33:41
 
Need to put one of those old dual range sprocket setups on there.  One for doing wheelies and the other for breaking the land speed record...
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Re: did the ton
Reply #53 - 02/18/07 at 03:43:19
 
Hutch,

I am quite familiar with the RE Bullet, I am a big singles from way back and having owned several, including a '78 Yamaha SR 500 and a '56 BSA Goldstar DBD 500 flat-track racer.  The SR being very similar to the Savage in power and speed, and the Goldstar being in a totally different catagory ... it was a wild animal in comparison ... in the 50+ hp range.  When the throttle was turned wide open it was hard to hang on during acceleration ... literally.  It was a wild freaking ride.

My point about the gear ratio change is simply that if a bike does not have enough power to max out its rpm in top gear now, then it will be even less able to come anywhere near maxing out its rpm with a taller gear ratio.
It is not unusual for cruiser or standard type bikes with an "overdrive" type of top gear, to be able to achieve a higher top speed in 4th gear than in 5th gear.  So adding more gear will not enable a higher top speed.
The bottom line is that to get more speed you need more power.

Your Savage, when running at 80 mph on the highway, is not turning 6500.  Check my chart, at 80 a stock bike will be turning about 5000 rpm.
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Re: did the ton
Reply #54 - 02/18/07 at 03:58:15
 
A bike with a larger-than-stock rear tire may do 80 mph at 5000 rpms, but a five speed Savage with a 140-80-15 rear tire will do 75 mph at 5000 rpms.  6000 rpms at 90 mph.  A 130-90-15, 140-90-15, or 150-90-15 would increase the speed per rpm.

LANCER, I assume your bike does 80mph at 5000rpms so you must have a bigger rear tire? Undecided
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Re: did the ton
Reply #55 - 02/18/07 at 04:07:38
 
Mine was doing 80 @ 4880 rpm with the  140/90-15 tire and stock gearing.  It was one of the Kenda brand tires.    There is enough variation in tire diameter/circumference  between brands and sizes to make several mph difference on the road.
When I had the stock tire on it my Savage did 80 @ 5200.  
50 mph was @ 3250 rpm.  Equating to 100 @ 6500 rpm.
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Re: did the ton
Reply #56 - 02/18/07 at 07:15:01
 
LANCER, all I know is that the RE is maxed at 80mph@5400rpm, the S40 is maxed at 80mph@ a whole lot more than 5400rpm....more like 6000+ So in your own words, since the S-40 has more horsepower than the RE, changing the gear ratio with chain and sprocket will increase top end and lower rpm at lower speeds. I would never try to change the RE ratio for the reason you said,not enough horsepower. It would put far to much strain on the bottom end of the motor when taking off. I sold a 69 Nova that I had set up for street class drag racing The idiot I sold it to(Ed) took it to the strip, showed up late ,didn't do a time trial with it and had only one person to race that day. The problem was ED had put 31" tall slicks on with the rearend set up for my wideovals. He wound it to 7500rpm dropped the clutch, pulled a big wheelie, almost killed the motor and still beat the only guy he had to race. I begged him to take the wide ovals off my street car for the next race. But all he said was "I'll make it run!!!. Well the next race was for the money and he did the same thing, only this time he spun three rod bearings, and lost. I could have killed him. When I tore the motor apart the bearings were piggie backed and the crank bent. So much for the 63 vette motor I had spent 2 years scraping the money together for to build. Buy putting those tall slicks on he had changed the gear ratio to about a 2.10, from the 3.90 that was in it. I know the RE would puke with a gear change. The S-40 is a different story. All I know is the S-40 is screaming rpms at 80 and done.Also, the S-40 does not have a overdrive type fifth gear. I wish it did, so I could do 80mph with out reving so High. I don't want to go 100 on it. I have enough other bikes that will FAR EXCEED the ton. I just want about 5000 at 80.
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Re: did the ton
Reply #57 - 02/18/07 at 07:34:51
 
Hutch wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
... When I tore the motor apart the bearings were piggie backed and the crank bent. ....

Piggie Backed the bearings?  Damm.  Seems like it would busted the journals doing that...
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Re: did the ton
Reply #58 - 02/18/07 at 08:01:06
 
Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:02:
Piggie Backed the bearings?  Damm.  Seems like it would busted the journals doing that...

The ends of the bearings only overlapped about a 1/4" When he shut it down, it froze up and I knew something bad had happened. I sold him the car cause I was hurting for money with a wife and daughter. He took over payments. All I owed was $600. The motor was rebuildable, but he sold it and the car. Made me sick. I'll try to post a picture of the car. 1963, 327c.i. Vette motor that I built to 425hp ruined in two runs. Some people should be shot for being stupid.  

Hope this works. Here is photo of the 69 Nova.

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Re: did the ton
Reply #59 - 02/18/07 at 08:11:07
 
Why do we call 100 mph a "ton"?  Shouldn't that refer to 200mph since a ton is 2000 lbs?  Roll Eyes
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