SuzukiSavage.com - Extending the life of the camchain

Kropatchek Serious Thumper Offline Why more than 1 cylinder? Posts: 1457 Alphen a/d Rijn Netherlands Gender:	Re: Extending the life of the camchain Reply #60 - 03/15/07 at 08:21:13 Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03: Then you have no reason not to try anyway....right? Wrong, I have no intention to invent the wheel again. ( translated Dutch proverb)
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Savage_Greg Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Don't go around your ass to reach your elbow... Posts: 7844 SW Washington State Gender:	Re: Extending the life of the camchain Reply #61 - 03/15/07 at 08:35:46 Kropatchek wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03: Wrong, I have no intention to invent the wheel again. ( translated Dutch proverb) Of course you don't...you've already "bought the farm". I meant tbalam
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tbalam

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I love my bike ;)

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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #62 - 03/15/07 at 15:31:54

First off,

the plunger is case hardened and a pain to drill. I did end up drilling it using a carbide tipped masonry bit, but

I cannot tap it without annealing it and i don't have the means to do that.

I think i may have found an option that gives more flexibility. I am using a steel threaded rod that I drilled and tapped. I can't see the reason behind the hardened steel, other than wear resistance, so i am going to give this setup a try. I think it'll work.

I am just prototyping things now so we'll see how it progresses. I made it a little longer than the original plunger and made the shoulder a little thicker so that i have about 15mm of thread inside the plunger. Also the fact that it is threaded allows the ratchet action to still work.

I bought 5/8 rod and then sanded it down to 14.8 mm. the threads are now flat and will not scratch the aluminum housing.

Thanks for everyones help. All of my parts should be here tommorrow so the bike should be back up and running this weekend I'll keep you posted.

Krop,
I can see why it wouldn't work for norbert, i don't think it can be done using the original plunger. If it doesn't work, Norbert will be getting an order for his creation.

Grin

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1996 Mirage paint, seat lift, 2 #4 washers, 155 main, 52.5 pilot. Removed pillon, belt guard, rear blinker mod, moved battery box. K&N cone, Chain conversion 17/43 (in process). Cam tensioner mod.

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justin_o_guy

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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #63 - 03/15/07 at 22:31:02

I'll bet you could get rigged up to anneal & harden it for less than 10 or 12 bucks. I think a hand held propane torch will heat it red hot. The self lighting ones cost more. The ones plumbers use to sweat connections will do it I think.

Heck, if your stove is gas you could hold it over the fire with a good wire & some pliers.

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justin_o_guy Ex Member	Re: Extending the life of the camchain Reply #64 - 03/16/07 at 10:36:15 High school? Man, are they even still Doing that? Thats's so"yesterday"...
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Savage_Greg Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Don't go around your ass to reach your elbow... Posts: 7844 SW Washington State Gender:	Re: Extending the life of the camchain Reply #65 - 03/17/07 at 06:47:34 verslagen1 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03: What can I say... I grew up durring the iron age. I thought knowing how to temper a chisel was a basic skill. That and hand sharpening drill bits. Definitely
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justin_o_guy Ex Member	Re: Extending the life of the camchain Reply #66 - 03/17/07 at 12:22:25 I worked in a machine shop a while. That's something I have enjoyed knowing. Just a bench grinder & ruler & I can make one cut. Getting the angle on small diameter bits is rough.
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justin_o_guy

Ex Member

Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #67 - 03/17/07 at 12:29:21

Kropatchek wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:

Have found a new description of the camchain tensioner system.
Have a look at the pictures.

http://www.ls-650.de/community/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1168393837;start=all
It's a cheaper version of the one described before.
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;n...

Works together with a modified tensioner that cannot separate at the end of its stroke. The little plunger prevents the piston of the tensioner to leave the housing. This will be the moment to open the cover and reposition the tensioner to its starting position e.g. fully in.
Noticed camchain life betwween 9000 and 25000 Miles, or at least the tensioner was out for more than 18 mm.
What do you think of this invention?

Greetz
Kropatchek Grin

Note: Reading more of the conversation in the forum.
You can copy the brackets, but there's a very important part missing without that there will be engine damage.

Wonder what that is, havn't got a clue yet.

Anybody? ?

KROP< What's the "Missing Part"? Seems like the brackets are the whole story, just looking. Of course, not ever having replaced a cam chain I could be wrong,, waaaay wrong. You've seen the whole kit now?

I think my approach will be to "tweak" the chain guide & see what it will take to extend the mount on the tensioner.

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Crusher0964

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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #68 - 03/17/07 at 20:51:18

justin_o_guy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:

KROP< What's the "Missing Part"? Seems like the brackets are the whole story, just looking. Of course, not ever having replaced a cam chain I could be wrong,, waaaay wrong. You've seen the whole kit now?

I think my approach will be to "tweak" the chain guide & see what it will take to extend the mount on the tensioner.

Thats it! I have been studying this thread off and on all day and that should work if you could shim the guide up.
But would that cause the guide to side load and bend? Hmmmmmmmm.
No it should not if the shims are between the the slack adjuster and the guide.
Man, mine is in about a thousand pieces right now ( doing a ground up thing) but I am going to look at that in the morn.
Okay I'll admit it! I am drinking beer right now soooooo I probably missied some of the " but you can't do that because" things
In the morning ! Tongue

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verslagen1

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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #69 - 03/17/07 at 23:35:13

Heat sometimes allows metal to return to its original shape. So it's not side loading that causes the problem, it's the natural heat of the engine.

How do you plan on shimming the guide?

My plan is to drill and tap a hole to place a bolt where it could apply pressure to the middle of the guide to help it keep its shape.

As it stands now IMHO, replace the chain if it stretches beyond .07" over 5". Reshape or replace the guide if the tensioner extends beyond 18mm with a good chain.

You can go further with either but at risk. .07" stretch will retard the cam timing by 7°. Appearantly, this type of chain is meant to float on the gear teeth anyway. So a worn chain doesn't effect the teeth of the sprockets like chains in the final drive.

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Crusher0964

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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #70 - 03/19/07 at 06:54:49

verslagen1 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:

Heat sometimes allows metal to return to its original shape. So it's not side loading that causes the problem, it's the natural heat of the engine.

How do you plan on shimming the guide?

My plan is to drill and tap a hole to place a bolt where it could apply pressure to the middle of the guide to help it keep its shape.

As it stands now IMHO, replace the chain if it stretches beyond .07" over 5". Reshape or replace the guide if the tensioner extends beyond 18mm with a good chain.

You can go further with either but at risk. .07" stretch will retard the cam timing by 7°. Appearantly, this type of chain is meant to float on the gear teeth anyway. So a worn chain doesn't effect the teeth of the sprockets like chains in the final drive.

I may have spoke to soon. I need some more time to sit down and look over the moveable guide and see what it would take to shim between the guide and the tentioner mount.

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Kropatchek

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Why more than 1
cylinder?

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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #71 - 03/19/07 at 08:03:55

Here I am again.

Q from All conserned

KROP< What's the "Missing Part"? Seems like the brackets are the whole story, just looking.
You've seen the whole kit now?

If you read back in this topic there was initialy
1) a camchain adjuster, manually adjusted and with a damper i.s.o. the "ratched" OEM tensioner. The case had to be opened to adjust the plate.
2) The plates could be adjusted without taking the cover off.

Manufacturing difficulties of the damper and the spring on the bottom ( that's why the 2 black spots on the picture) let to the latest kit: the "Standard" which uses the "Limited travel" tensioner and the installation of the plates.

The latter is installed in the block that's in my bike now.

Hope this clarifies thing up a bit..

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Never ask your bike to scream before her throat is warm.
'93 Sav in '96 ( yellow) looks

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28754 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Extending the life of the camchain Reply #72 - 03/19/07 at 18:15:23 Tbalam, how's it going? Got it back together yet?
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tbalam Full Member Offline I like my kids, but I love my bike ;) Posts: 172 Fac o' the Sn Gender:	Re: Extending the life of the camchain Reply #73 - 03/19/07 at 18:25:51 Nah, still waiting on that last part to put the tensioner back together.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28754 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Extending the life of the camchain Reply #74 - 04/08/07 at 18:49:48 OK, my turn. 20736 on the odometer, opened her up and the tensioner is sticking out 22mm I'll let you know more as I go along, had to stop and read the manual... darn it, when I'm supposed to remove the clutch?
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