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Certainly not all good news but worth reading, (Read 37 times)
justin_o_guy
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Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
01/02/07 at 09:29:26
 
I found an article about our bikes. It IS brutal. It also offers some very real SOUNDing advice. I have about zip experience & what I do have is on this bike.
http://personal.inet.fi/business/tumi/pg/BfaS.pdf

I know I will be jacking the idle up now since I read this. He says the reason Zooki wants it up is to keep the oil pressure high enuff to keep the top end protected. I have mine just above flame out.
He talks about suspension mods, carb tuning, air filters & air boxes & the theory behind the air box. I just thot it was a place to stick an air filter! OHH geeeze!  So, we love the bike with all its warts & this guy shines a high intensity spotlight on ever single wart & then offers a few possible  answers.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
Reply #1 - 01/02/07 at 10:24:01
 
Aw, no sweat.  He aspires to be a writer, has an agenda, and is passionate about his own beliefs.  

The downside of the article is that he doesn't use a spell checker.  The upside is that his rambling sentence structure will bore you quickly enough to save you from reading all 89 pages.

If you have time to waste, it will be well spent.
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
Reply #2 - 01/02/07 at 10:36:36
 
I think the technical aspect of the info outweighs the less than wonderful writing style. What agenda he has is unclear to me. Seems he is offering as many ways to get the most out of a Savage  from handling to power.
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
Reply #3 - 01/02/07 at 10:51:32
 
justin_o_guy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
I think the technical aspect of the info outweighs the less than wonderful writing style. What agenda he has is unclear to me. Seems he is offering as many ways to get the most out of a Savage  from handling to power.


Ah, but he starts with the premise that the bike requires all these improvements...

Just sort of turned me off because not only does he think the bike needs the mods, but that we also need to be informed.

It's a tough job, but I guess he's got to do it Smiley

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Tumi
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Re: Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
Reply #4 - 01/02/07 at 12:05:21
 
Hello,

No, I don't aspire to be a writer. Far from it, maybe the opposite. As people who've read the article may know, I wrote it so I wouldn't need to write same nuts over and over again. For example during beginning of 2006 January to April, before getting the article online, I got 61 e- mails concerning Savage technical matters, nearly all because of the first short article on Thumper Page. Answering 10 or 20 mails a month in a foreign language, same questions and topics, grows old after a few years. Now people who otherwise would e-mail me, may read the article, whether or not they like it is not up to me. I would have answered them the same way had they e-mailed me straight. The article does not exist to please anybody, it exists to cut down my incoming e-mails and it has worked well. I did not write the article to say you had to do all this, but to remind you there is still room to go beyond larger main jet and a shaved spacer so if people are not satisfied with the results from a rejet or other usual mods (not everyone is), there are still some possibilities instead of selling the bike and buying an Intruder. What people easily forget is that Savages have been around for 20 years and also for 20 years there have Savage riders doing modifications. I took a quick look at the first page of this forum for a look of technical things - there seems to be little progress from what Savage people did in the eighties and nineties, before www, before forums, before nice 'expert' post counts. Back then people had to find out things themselves.  

My passion about my own beliefs is based on my experiences. I rode my Savage for over 50 000 kms in about 30 months (no commuting), and I would have kept the bike much longer if it hadn't rot in every imaginable way by the time I sold it 'as is' 70 000km on the odo. Rust and heavy oil consumption, plus not being able to do meaningful two up touring were the main reasons why I didn't want to do a complete overhaul and keep it. At the time I thought no 650 midsize bike wouldn't last longer - right now I've a 650 (not a Suzuki) with 110 500 kms on the odo, original clutch, original valves, cam chains, everything, very small oil consumption. That is why I don't value Savages as highly as people on Savage forums generally do, just because I wore one out one much sooner than my next bike seems to. I've heard lots of Savage riders state their bikes run and last forever - even people who may have covered 10 or 15 thousand miles on their bikes. That's very nice beginning, but still a beginning, 20 k miles on a Savage is early days yet. But what do I know - my post count on this or other bike forums is minimal (apart from Heise site years ago) so understandably there's no way I could know about medium term and mileage durability on this or any other bike.

.. to be continued ..
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Tumi
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Re: Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
Reply #5 - 01/02/07 at 12:07:43
 
.. part 2 ..

Since selling the Savage I started to do some bike maintenance side work with small things, valve adjustments, brake and carb overhauls, and finally became friends with a national A class racer and have helped him since 1996 or so, in 600 Supersport A, 600 Std and 600 Stocksport classes, mostly national but also a few Scandinavian races. No amount of street bike riding or maintenance has taught me about serious bike maintenance as much as hundreds of race weekends camping in paddocks. This is why I think I know something about performance modifications. I won't say anyone shouldn't put on a, say, HD exhaust if he/she likes it, but as a serious performance modification.. no, never. Next one who mails me to tell original HD exhausts are the best power upgrade to any bike should first explain me why even Harley guys want to get rid of the pipes in the first place.

I honestly think Savage culture and heritage could use a kick forward, maybe slightly away from HD exhausts and vinyl fringes, 'plug reading' and some of the wrong kind of biker mentality. Singles don't need to be developmental backwater. For a nice thumper example take a look at this local supermoto thumper. Suzuki DR762, Schnitzer S 39 turbo, intercooler, oil cooler, Megasquirt v3 EFI, lots of carbon fiber parts which owner made himself plus suspension and brakes from several donor bikes. There are few reasons why a Savage could not have basically same engine modifications. I would really like to see Savage, not necessarily just like this, just a bit like this, improving handling and performance in a noticeable way.

In regards to missing spell checker there actually is one in my Finnish MS Word, but I never know should I use the US english or British english spelling because there are readers from all over the globe. That's why I don't use it. I know Americans have a funny way of saying 'tires' and 'grey' and 'awesome' but I've never learnt the finer points of the dialect. Maybe someone would point out the most glaring mistakes so I may correct them at the next version edit. Also, those who say they know far better than me, I honestly need every bit of performance minded technical info you could give me, there's another racing season appearing and we need to run against riders 20 years younger and 80 pounds lighter, some of which have had wildcard rides in WSS and WSB. Any help is appreciated, thank you.

And, finally, no I don't sneer at the bike you ride. Do not forget I used to ride one myself. I may sneer, for example, to people who do more forum posting than actual riding. I think bike fraternities, including Savage 'community' do not need posing, lots of ordinary riding should do just fine, stock or modified bike.
If anyone wants to comment my view of things, my e-mail is rdr647 (at) netti.fi . Mention 'Savage' or LS650' so your mail won't be spam filtered.

Best regards,

Tumi Laamanen
Finland
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barry68v10
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Re: Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
Reply #6 - 01/02/07 at 20:04:25
 
Thanks to Tumi for the info and the time to write the article.

It's like I keep saying, it's all about your expectations.  I expected good gas milage, better than average-car performance, and wind whipping past my head on the hiway at 70 mph, with no chain or radiator to mess with.  The Savage has met my expectations.  Since I paid $1700 for the bike, even if I get 25000 miles out of her, I'll be way ahead since I would never be willing to pay $17000 for a bike I could get 250,000 miles out of (no, I don't ever expect to own a Goldwing...)

The Savage fits the bill nicely in my current version of reality Grin
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petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
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geo
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Re: Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
Reply #7 - 01/02/07 at 21:02:05
 
Gee's
This guy will never write for a newspaper. He doesn't say anything with all those words.
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Black 2002 Savage with SuperTrapp 13 discs, Dynajet Kit-DJ144, K&N drop-in, NGK-Iridium, Windscreen, Amsoil 10w-40, Metzeler ME880's
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Paladin.
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Re: Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
Reply #8 - 01/02/07 at 22:55:01
 
You can boil it down to six words:  "Not what I was looking for."
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
Reply #9 - 01/02/07 at 23:18:57
 
I appreciate the time the man took to put out something I can use. I certainly don't expect to see me tearing thaT thing down & checkin the Squish band. That's more than I want to be doing. However, should I find myself in there I just may give it a go.
I had the idle too low, thought it sounded cool Idled up to make sure the oil pressure is enough to protect the top end.
I just got finished increasing the volume of the airbox in the area between the filter element & the carb. No grit in the air passages so filter is doing its job.
I also grooved the brake shoes & now have decreased the surface area by between 30 & 50 percent.  I feel confident it will stop. Maybe now it won't lock up so easily.

REEL< aluminum base shoes>  Are EBC's different?
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Reelthing
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Re: Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
Reply #10 - 01/03/07 at 03:45:50
 
Yes, the EBCs frames are coated steel - seem to be a bit higher friction than OEMs
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rokrover
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Re: Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
Reply #11 - 01/03/07 at 07:32:30
 
Paladin. wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
You can boil it down to six words:  "Not what I was looking for."  


+1
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Savage_Greg
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Re: Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
Reply #12 - 01/03/07 at 10:01:19
 
Is it safe to come out now?

Smiley
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barry68v10
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Re: Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
Reply #13 - 01/03/07 at 10:48:22
 
I started a lengthy response last night but decided not to post.  In essence, what I think Tumi missed is that "low-end torque" is more what "big torque" means to a thumper rider.  The LS 650 runs even with an SV 650 thru 4000 RPMs.  Low end torque is what makes for a much more "streetable" engine in my book, especially in stop & go traffic and low speed city driving.  At 60 MPH, I had to drop my Magna TWO GEARS to get into the power band.  On the other hand, I still remember my KZ1000 fondly...
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petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
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Ed L.
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Re: Certainly not all good news but worth reading,
Reply #14 - 01/03/07 at 13:51:41
 
It is what it is, there are enough different types of bikes out there so it would make more sense just to get a different bike instead of trying to reinvent a Savage. And as to busting on the sportster muffler, well most Harley riders want thier bikes to be LOUD which is why they toss the stock mufflers. The sporty muffler has better chrome, weighs less and is better quality than the can that Suzuki hung on the savage and it still is one of the cheepest performance mod along with a rejet advailable. If you want it louder drill the baffle out. Oh yeah, nobody will argue that the quality control on the savage is dismal at best, you get what you pay for. JMHO on it all  Grin
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Silver '02, clubman handle bars, Cobra headlight, Sportster muffler, K+N stock air filter, 152.5 main, Superbrace, oil cooler, 1/2 inch aluminium plate forward controls, spark advance, goes like stink
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