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Clean air Commentary (Read 7 times)
geo
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Clean air Commentary
12/25/06 at 22:26:23
 
When I started motorcycling, motorcycles were a lot different.
Back in the 1970's there were a lot more 2-stroke bikes available, and I owned 2 of these, a 1969 Yamaha DT-1B 250cc Enduro single, and a 1972 Yamaha DS-7 street twin. These bikes were quick, lightweight, and handled very well. Suzuki had some impressive performers too.

Then there was the age of the 4 cylinder 4-strokes. These were very smooth and had lots of power. Also, there was the 2-stoke Kawasaki triples at 500cc and 750cc that were setting speed records. These were great times for motorcycles, what has happened? ???

Clean air standards have eliminated these terrific old motorcycles. Now we have to deal with these big bore monster heavy motorcycles. The lightest one is over 450 pounds. It turns out these bigger bore engines burn fuel cleaner, and are more friendly to the environment.

What was amazing to me when coming back into motorcycling was that the HD Sportster 883 was now considered a beginner motorcycle. ??? This was considered a very big bike back in the 1970's. What a Shock!

The 250cc bikes offered today by Yamaha and Honda now are awful heavy, slow slugs. My old Yamaha 250's could blow all these away and probably some of the current big bore machines.

So, what is the answer?
I found the Suzuki LS650 Savage. It is light (350 pounds), has decent power, and looked good like I remembered a motorcycle ought to look like. It also satisified the clean air whackos.

This bike has been around for about 20 years now filling a gigantic void other manufactures have written off.

Some smart manufacturer might wise up and become aware of this void, and offer a fuel injected engine that produces good power in a lightweight motorcycle.

Suzuki: Get going on it.

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Black 2002 Savage with SuperTrapp 13 discs, Dynajet Kit-DJ144, K&N drop-in, NGK-Iridium, Windscreen, Amsoil 10w-40, Metzeler ME880's
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Rockin_John
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Re: Clean air Commentary
Reply #1 - 12/25/06 at 23:39:24
 
Geo, I started riding back in those good ol' days too... but the forces at work in the changes to what bikes are available today are more complex than just the clean air quality standards and difference between 2 and 4 stroke engines.

Though those issues did weigh heavy on manufactureres to change engine designs; much of the styling designs mentioned, and what is conidered a small / large, or "beginner" bike have been changes in the mind set of the consumer as much or more than the makers.

BTW, one of my bikes I put quite a few miles on as a teen, before it got stolen, was an early 70s DT-250 also. I went through several phases with it, the last being a higher geared mostly-street bike that was about as fast as my current Savage. Top speed was probably a bit faster than the Savage! Dragged an H2 Kaw for a while too... those would put hair on your... or remove it rapidly if you didn't know how to ride it.

And while "clean air standards" may have eliminated many these bikes, I'm not kidding myself that they were that "great." While wonders in their time, most of those old wonder machines had flaws. Sometimes serious ones.

And you've touched on one of my pet peeves... Beginner bikes. My thinking must be much different that many others on this issue, because I think the Honda Rebel, and Suzuki Savage are very bad choices as first rides, and especially poor choices as training cycles for teaching new riders on.

In fact, IMO, even the 883 with middle foot peg controls probably would be a better choice. A forward mounted foot position is no way to learn to ride from day one IMO. And there is no doubt in my mind that either the 250cc Ducati that was the first bike I rode, or the Honda CL90cc that was the first bike I owned, were both far superior cycles to learn on that any sit-back, forward control, crusier style bike.

And while I've gotten familiar with the controls on my Savage, and love the bike... to the point of wanting to personalize and customize it,  still wish there were several models offered with the same engine. At least a UJM (Universal Japanese Motorcycle)  could be made a good all around ride, and a good platform for user modification into other more specialized uses (Cafe, Scrambler, etc...).

I agree with your last statement, but with additions: Since the whole Motard thing seems to be a no-go in North America, we are overdue for SOME innovation, even if that innovation is the de-evolution back to the UJM or low ride height Enduro or something besides more crusiers and crotch rockets.
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Re: Clean air Commentary
Reply #2 - 12/26/06 at 03:34:20
 
quote:

" Some smart manufacturer might wise up and become aware of this void, and offer a fuel injected engine that produces good power in a lightweight motorcycle.

Suzuki: Get going on it."

========================

Let's see, my Kawa 750 triple had an awsome 75 hp available when it hit its power band peak.  Frame really wasn't up to it, nor were the brakes.  As I remember it came with a steering dampner to help with the high speed wobble syndrome since it could break 120 mph (and do darn fast, too).  Bike weighed more than my Savage, that's for sure, what did it weight in at, 375 lbs?

Let's see what a Suzuki 750 GSXR can do now-a-days.  Yep, it's fuel injected, water cooled and computer controlled yet it weighs what our Savages weigh.  150 hp four stroke motor, not particularly peaky, just needs to be rev'd up to over 6,000 rpm to get into its main power band.  darn thing screams and it wheelies easily in first and second and it does a nasty stoppie too -- hey, it's no cruser by any man's estimation.  But it gets kudos for its handling from everybody and it is good for 120 mph + without any nasty tank slapping high speed wobbles at all.

So, Suzuki did it -- double over, no less --  

Suzuki makes a 1000 GSXR too, it weights 355 pounds (same as our Savages) and it comes with a 3 speed selector switch up on the handle bars which modifies the power charactersitics coming out of the computer.  If it is raining, you can flip it to "rain mode" and get a gently accellerating beast that puts out what a GSX 600 does (about 120 hp).  Mid position is 150 hp so you can run with the 750 guys.  Upper position is 180 hp so you can run by yourself.  Nitrous people sell a nice little stock kit for the bike so it makes 230 hp so it can whomp up on the Haybusa size 1300 cc bikes.

So what?  Some teenager can have it, I'd rather have my thumper.

Oldfeller
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Re: Clean air Commentary
Reply #3 - 12/26/06 at 20:15:52
 
While thinking of "the good ol days" remember that until relatively recently the stock configuration motorcycle speed record was held by a man laying flat prone on the seat of a Vincent Black Shadow wearing nothing but a speedo bathing suit.  

Yes, the longest standing stock motorcycle Bonneville Salt flats speed number was 150 mph made by a correctly geared smooth running Vincent Black Shadow with less than 100 hp on tap.  The man took all his clothes off because the wind at 150 mph simply ripped the seams open and then tore his leathers off his body when he got up around those speeds.  Ditto the odd laying flat belly balanced on the seat riding style -- the wind began putting him that way as he worked up to those top speeds, so he simply began starting out that way from the beginning of his runs.  

Can you imagine trusting your arms and hands enough to hang on against a 150 mph wind thrust?   Yikes !!

People talk about going 200 mph on a re-geared bone stock production bike -- yep, they are just talking about it right now, but somebody will do it soon enough.  

========================================

Currently BMW Motorcycles holds the stock speed record.

Woodcliff Lake, NJ - November 8, 2005 - A 2006 production model BMW K1200S has set a world land speed record in the 1000 - 1350 cc stock, partially streamlined, naturally aspirated motorcycle class at Utah's famed Bonneville Salt Flats.

The motorcycle, piloted by 56-year-old Andy Sills, of San Francisco, CA, reached an average speed of 173.57 mph and top speed of 176.789 mph after two runs on the vast, white plains, where hundreds of land speed records have been set and broken since the early 1900s in a variety of automobile and motorcycle classes.

========================================

This record won't last very long, BMWs are NOT the fastest bikes in the world in case you haven't noticed, but by not being Japanese they don't have a mandated speed limiter built into them.  

But, if you defeat your speed limiter your bike isn't "stock" any more -- catch 22 to all you Habusa and Kawa guys with your mandated 175 mph limiter devices.

BTW, the really fast bikes are the fully enclosed streamliners (and the record for those bikes is over 350 mph -- and his front tire exploded during the run and he finished the run flying along on the rim .....)

They can keep all that stuff, too.

Oldfeller

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