does anyone know if the four speed belt drive pulleys are the same as the five speed?

brewbrother
   According to the part numbers the pulleys have always been the same on all Savages.

In all the reseach that I have done between the four and five speed models I have come to the conclusion that basically all that was done was to lower the first four gear ratios and add a fifth. Ending with the same final ratio and same top speed as the four speed. That is the reason I want to be able to change to a chain, which should basically bring the fist four gears back to the original output, and fifth would give you a higher top speed with lower rpm's. It should acelerate the same as the old four speed, with fifth being like an overdrive. Better gas milage, less wear on the motor due to fewer rpm's, and higher top speed if you want.

Hutch wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:12:



I've been looking over the gear ratio numbers comparing the 4-speed and 5-speed for some time too. Also, I've commented in the past that the ideal solution to the common complaint of top gear not being of a high enough ratio, would not be to change the overall gearing with final drive sprockets, but to actually change the transmission's gearing itself.

Here are the nunbers:

Ratio              4-speed        5-speed
-----------------------------------------------------
1st gear         2.214           2.333
2nd gear        1.500           1.578
3rd gear         1.095           1.142
4th gear         0.875           0.956
5th gear   ________ 0.884

Here are some general observations from someone who has only ridden one 1987 model 4-speed Savage:

(1) Wish I had the lower first gear of the 5-speed.
(2) The fourth gear ratio of the 5-speed would probably be really handy putting along at 35-40mph without the engine protesting (lugging/bucking).
(3) I'm glad my 4-speed has the VERY slightly higher top gear ratio; because I certainly wouldn't want it ANY lower when I get on the highway and go 55mph+.
(4) When I finally get around to installing the 140/90-15 tire sitting in my garage, I'm very curious how the revs will feel to me at highway speed.
(5) If I were to go the sproket and chain route, I'd want the 5-speed for sure; because first is almost too high in the 4-speed as it is.

I've also mentioned before that I doubt I'll do anything to change the gearing on my '87 (other than change the rear tire as stated). Nothing has changed about my opinion on that. If I decide I want a real high speed interstate cruising machine, I'll buy another bike.

However, I've already decided to commit myself to keeping the Savage to enjoy for what it is: A fun lightweight torque machine. I dropped the hammer pretty hard on mine the other day from a 4-way stop sign on some smooth asphault, and laid rubber all the way across the itersection! Even got a little drift when I hit second. It left me smiling for several miles thereafter.  8)

Rockin_John,
   Just did some fast calculations and if Smokin_ Blue is right(see BELTvsCHAIN) this is what I will end up with:

        4speed              5speed            5 sp with 6%
                                                          increase in gearing


 1st  2.21                   2.33                 2.19
 2nd 1.50                   1.57                 1.48
 3rd  1.09                   1.14                 1.07
 4th  0.87                   0.95                 0.89
                                  0.88                 0.83

Acceleration would be close to the 4sp. Drop down from 5th to 4th to pass and have more acceleration than the 4sp does in top gear. Cruise in fifth at about 400rpm slower than the stock 5sp. It will cruise at lower rpm than the stock 4sp also.   I know a lot of people will think that 400rpm aint that much, but get in you car and idle it a 600, then hold it at 1000 and just think how many more times that piston is going up and down. Less wear on engine, better gas milage. and just about the same perfomance as the old 4sp, with the added cruise gear of 5th.
THANX FOR THE INFO John and Blue

RIDE SAFE
                    Hutch

Does anyone know if a 29-tooth pulley will fit on the front of a Savage?

Hutch wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:12:



The columns are problematic with the forum software. Try using underlines or hyphens between characters instead of spaces. I undersood you post just the same, and sure most others did too.

It all sounded like good theory too... Until I found this info in a post in the Technical Forum (Differences between '86 and '05 or something like that):

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Does anybody know if the primary drives are interchangable between 4 and 5 speed models?
Thanks.

Clive


Yes.  The '86 -'88 models had a Primary reduction ratio of 1.88 with the gears of 68 and 36.  After that the ratio was changed to 1.81 with the gears 67 and 37.

Of course the transmission ratios were changed too.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
(The numbers are from Ron Ayer's microfische I think.)

So it looks to me like slight difference in the primary reduction between 4-speed and 5-speed may have made the final drive in top gear closer than I thought. Notice I'm not sweating the details of exact numbers; because changing to a bigger rear tire is probably the only change I'll make. Then I can check my beore and after RPM numbers by hooking up my trusty old spark plug wire  inductance powered tune-up tach, and taping it to the handlebars temporarily.

Once again, it is my opinion that the problem with Savage gearing is NOT in the primary nor final drive ratios. If I were REALLY serious about getting the Savage gearing perfectt, I'd try to get a real machinist to collaborate on making new gear sets for first and fourth or fifth gear on the main and counter transmisssion shafts. Not an easy thing to do, but it is the ultimate solution IMHO.

Perhaps, Paul, posting as Smokin_Blue on the Chain vs Belt thread could be convinced to lend his machinist experience to discussion of such. I have experience in all shops of manufacturing except machine parts. I can cut, fab, fit, weld, industrial paint. Instrument and electronics tech etc... but I never worked the machine shop. Nor did I care too, but now in semi-retirement I'm wishing I knew more about it. Oh, I'm trained to measure parts with instruments to see if they need replacement, re-chroming etc... I just don't know how to run any machines except a drill press, and I always considerd that more a fab shop job like punching and shearing than a machine shop job.

On the other hand, I'd be happy swapping out the fifth gear.  But...I'm afraid of the cost of a quality hunk of steel and the cost for the machine-work.  You might be able to buy a new bike for that!  

Hey, Rockin-John!  If you find a good source for such a change, let us know.  You may be able to turn this into a business.