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belt vs chain (Read 37 times)
Hutch
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Re: belt vs chain
Reply #15 - 12/13/06 at 07:14:58
 
Grail21
     Anything is possible. As far as goes you would have to find one with the correct widthand teeth pattern, this is a must. Length would take a few attemps to get one to fall into your adjustment range. This is another reason that I like chain, just add or subtract links till it fits. With a 6" stetch another problem you will have to address is belt or chain slap. Its a easy fix on a hard tail . All you have to do is fab up an idler pully for the chain/pulley off the bottom frame rail to take out the slop on bottom of belt/chain.
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Re: belt vs chain
Reply #16 - 12/13/06 at 07:22:37
 
Hey Hutch
Thanks for the response, everything you stated is kind of why I'm going with a chain, plus I think it will fit the bike I'm building better. From what I'm told, the chain conversion isn't too hard and can be done some what easily. Again, from what I've been told the front gear is the same as almost all the 530chain 'zukis, and the rear gear is the same as a GS 450 (and some other models). I've yet to try it obviously, but everything "should" line right up. Should be much cheaper than the kit from germany. With the 6" stretch I might also have to consider a tensioner, but those are readily available for about $80 or if santa brings me a welder, possibly make my own.

-Grail
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Rogue_Cheddar
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Re: belt vs chain
Reply #17 - 12/13/06 at 07:33:39
 
thumperclone wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:11:
$500 for a belt change ???


When I got my 95 Savage in August, the belt had a chunk bitten out of it by a rock, so I called around for quotes on a belt change. They ranged anywhere from $275 - $500 + . I got me a Clymers and a belt and did it myself. (screw em!) Belt cost me $160, Clymers $26. So far I'm ahead of the game. Oh yeah, I had to pick up a 32mm socket for the front sproket. $6. Still ahead.
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Hutch
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Re: belt vs chain
Reply #18 - 12/13/06 at 07:44:30
 
Grail21
If the chain conversion works, let me know. I planned to get the kit from Germany this summer, but if I can save some money, why not?
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grail21
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Re: belt vs chain
Reply #19 - 12/13/06 at 07:58:22
 
will do hutch. I'm just starting to put all the pieces together right now and hopefully everything will line up right.

Grail
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smokin_blue
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Re: belt vs chain
Reply #20 - 12/13/06 at 10:45:25
 
Ok, I was holding off even poking my nose out but I will...I am at the front end of a great project (just have to get a couple of wood projects out of the way first that are 2 years over due).  I will be doing a full frame swap and chain conversion while building my next project....a LS650 engined 60's style cafe.  Actually the only thing savage on it will most likely be the engine...but anyway I have a few resources I may be able to help out the chain conversion issue.  

A little background...I am a bike builder and machinist by hobby (read sanity medicine), work as a product development engineer with a mechanical engineering degree as a day job, and spent 3 years early on in life as a suzuki mechanic.  I have owned GS's GXR's,GT's, and TS's and now a LS crash for the motor.  

I can tell you the front sprocket off most GS engines will fit the front counter shaft....I can email a picture to anyone that wants to see it on there...I slipped my old 15 tooth GS750 sprocket on there.  The back pully I have not pulled yet to measure but from looking at it a standard suzuki rear should fit it...I can confirm if you are interested.  Understand there are basically two suzuki front shaft designs over the years and two rear hub specs that they used on all the bikes from the late 70's through to today short of some of the highend GSXR's.  

The front is a 25mm od spline with a 21.6mm root diameter with 13 splines.  The rear sprockets were either a 100mm bolt circle with a 76mm thru hole or a 110mm bolt circle and an 87mm thru hole.  I just need to confirm what the back end is on the savage.

I have a few sites for specs on any chain driven suzuki for front and rear sprockets so once we measure up the rear hub we can find a standard sprocket that will work.  

I am going to be using a GS550 spoked rear wheel on my project so I am planning on going with the 530 chain and planning a 15 tooth front combined with a 44 tooth rear which will give standard gearing...then I plan to try a 16 tooth front to gear it up about 6-7%.

Lastly,,,two words of warning if you want to build your own conversion.  We will need to check the clearance for the chain an may need to step up the front to a 16 or 17 tooth front which wont be an issue...you just increase the rear appropirately.  For a 16 front with stock rear grearing you will need a 47 tooth rear.  For a 17 front it would be a 50 tooth rear...which is standard on a GS550 for example (if the bolt pattern is right).

The second warning is to confirm the alingnment of the sprockets and the counter shaft will require a spacer either inboard of the sprocket to allign it with the rear or out board to take up the extra shaft length under the nut (or one on each side to make it all perfect).  However spacers are relatively easy so don't let that scare you away.


Paul
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Jim_R
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Re: belt vs chain
Reply #21 - 12/13/06 at 11:53:40
 
I never had any issues with the belt of the suzuki savage or the chain on my yamaha fz6.  I admit the belt was virtually no maintence but with a chain u can change ratios.

I found this new lubricant from Dupont (sold at Lowes hardware for 4.99 a can) that uses teflon.  After I cleaned my chain off with kerosene and let it dry I put some of this on my chain every 500 miles or so.  It works great and its cheap too.  It leaves a transparent waxy teflon coating on ur chain and it will not flick off after it dries (in 10 mins).  Its a great product and I wont use anything else.  Alot of other riders on sportbikes.net use it too.
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Savage_Rob
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Re: belt vs chain
Reply #22 - 12/13/06 at 12:07:47
 
smokin_blue
I'm generally a belt fan but that's good info for anyone contemplating a conversion, thanks.

Jim_R
When you get a chance, would you post the name of the product for anyone interested?  Thanks.
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grail21
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Re: belt vs chain
Reply #23 - 12/13/06 at 12:45:26
 
hey smokin' blue
great info, thanks for posting it, you answered some of the questions I was thinking without me ever having to ask them. Can't wait to see your cafe.

-grail
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Jim_R
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Re: belt vs chain
Reply #24 - 12/13/06 at 15:15:40
 
DuPont Multi-Use Lubricant with Teflon Fluoropolymer, 11 oz Aerosol Spray




Link to WebBikeWorld.com Product Review
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Reply #25 - 12/13/06 at 20:00:02
 
Hi Hutch- interesting how we all evolve.  When younger i wanted a shaft drive (BMW), now I like the belt drives/  Now that the "new" triumph bonnevilles 100 can be modified to belt drive, all I need is about $8K and I would have the bike of my present dreams Grin  But you are so right, you can change the relative "gearing" and length so much easier witha chain.  Be interested in the Mod when done,  Best of Luck.
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Hutch
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Re: belt vs chain
Reply #26 - 12/13/06 at 20:59:09
 
High back at you Tpippah,
     I guess I just am stuck in the 60-70s. Things were simpler then. With the bare minumum of tools you could fix almost anything on the side of the road. It was nothing to see a hood up and later see the guy driving around. Now they call a wrecker. Everybody raved about cars with electronic ignition, last forever. The only problem is when it goes it's with no warning. At least points start missing as a warning. Sprocket(chain) teeth start showing wear. Belts just break and you are stranded. The main thing I don't like is being stuck with what the manufacturer has given you. I like to be able to choose how fast I take off or what my top speed can be. It's not that I want to go 120mph, but if that is what it takes to run 75 at a lower rpm that is what I will do. With the wide torque band of the Savage I feel that not much would really be lost in acceleration. I will gladly sacrifice durability for fixability any time. What do you expect.from a compulsive tinkerer? Most car and motorcycle manufacturers run on the same principle. They try to make their product so complicated that the average person can't fix it. Bottom line, most of them make more off repairs than they do sales.
    Let me know if you find RE.
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Re: belt vs chain
Reply #27 - 12/14/06 at 03:24:42
 
Hutch wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:12:
High back at you Tpippah,
     I guess I just am stuck in the 60-70s. Things were simpler then. With the bare minumum of tools you could fix almost anything on the side of the road. It was nothing to see a hood up and later see the guy driving around. Now they call a wrecker. Everybody raved about cars with electronic ignition, last forever. The only problem is when it goes it's with no warning. At least points start missing as a warning. Sprocket(chain) teeth start showing wear. Belts just break and you are stranded. The main thing I don't like is being stuck with what the manufacturer has given you. I like to be able to choose how fast I take off or what my top speed can be. It's not that I want to go 120mph, but if that is what it takes to run 75 at a lower rpm that is what I will do. With the wide torque band of the Savage I feel that not much would really be lost in acceleration. I will gladly sacrifice durability for fixability any time. What do you expect.from a compulsive tinkerer? Most car and motorcycle manufacturers run on the same principle. They try to make their product so complicated that the average person can't fix it. Bottom line, most of them make more off repairs than they do sales.
    Let me know if you find RE.
  RIDE SAFE


My .02

I'd rather have the belt honestly for this bike.  The reason I say this is because its an in town low"er" speed bike due to just being a thumper.  I'd agree with you on the chain drive on middle weight (8-900 cc) v-twins or larger (if you are lower RPMS for highway driving).  The counter balancer in the Savage does a good job, for the most part.

As far as the "good" ol' days.  Well lets face it, the vast majority of people drive their car.  They don't maintenance it themselves.  What I call old technology (carberation, points ignition, ect) has a linear decline to it.  It slowly gives out.  Honestly its nice you can fix it (had 74 Nova with a 235, then upgraded to 350) but I don't think I want to go back.  Of coarse I'm a bit younger than you hutch (not ment to offend) so I've grown up with the computerized car....

While todays technology adjusts itself (sensors, ect) until I just breaks down and causes a failure.  Most modern cars CAN run in what techs call "limp" mode.  One sensor's out, but the car runs like a$$ so you can get it back to the shop.  The problem with most folks is that it's all on computer bus technology (read wires and harnesses everywhere).  You need a computer to diagnose and fix your problem.  

I don't know what to say outside of that's why I pay a technician (not a mechanic) to fix my car.  Undecided    

I see both sides on the chain vs belt issue.  I just think this particular bike is suited to belt that's all.

- Roadie
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Re: belt vs chain
Reply #28 - 12/16/06 at 23:27:18
 
Switching from belt to chain on this bike is a waist of time and money, because the stock gear ratios out of the transmission are so bad that whatever gear you improve on by final drive ratio change will make 2 others worse. The drive ratios out of this box are pretty poor; I wish the 1st gear was lower, 2nd & 3rd are OK, 4th should be slightly taller, and 5th be elliminated.  A 5th gear is not needed for an old time slow revving engine. What were they thinking?
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barry68v10
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Re: belt vs chain
Reply #29 - 12/17/06 at 09:59:06
 
I'm torn!  I like the belt and have no desire to go back to a chain, but I would like to run about 1000 RPMs less at 70 MPH... Sad

Guess this is a "have your cake and eat it too" issue for me.  I've decided "do nothing" is my best option for now.
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