Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 
Send Topic Print
Oil cooler install update (Read 82 times)
verslagen1
YaBB Moderator
ModSquad
*****
Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28884
L.A. California
Gender: male
Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #30 - 03/16/07 at 22:11:58
 
so are you going to starve the head while the cooler fills?
Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
justin_o_guy
Ex Member




Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #31 - 03/16/07 at 22:58:31
 
I thought about the clear tubing option, but not a big fan of that option due to limited tube strength.  Like the temp gauge route but must be careful to test in same conditions.  Another route is to measure actual heat carried from oil cooler with a given oil temp, which would be the best way to determine efficiency.  Just not sure how I'd set up a test of the last case Huh

I wouldn't USE the clear tube longer than to determine the flow rate. Just as a test. An hour?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Rockin_John
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1562
+36° 10' , -95° 48'
Gender: male
Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #32 - 03/17/07 at 00:47:52
 
justin_o_guy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
I thought about the clear tubing option, but not a big fan of that option due to limited tube strength.  Like the temp gauge route but must be careful to test in same conditions.  Another route is to measure actual heat carried from oil cooler with a given oil temp, which would be the best way to determine efficiency.  Just not sure how I'd set up a test of the last case Huh

I wouldn't USE the clear tube longer than to determine the flow rate. Just as a test. An hour?



With a gauge port at input and output, I'd think a couple of cheap bi-metal thermometers would tell all that needed to be known about temp differential:

http://www.weissinstruments.com/tempbimetal.htm
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
barry68v10
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 955
Maryland
Gender: male
Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #33 - 03/17/07 at 03:54:07
 
Quote:
so are you going to starve the head while the cooler fills?


Good question!  I think the answer is maybe for a little while on first start up.

But after first startup, you can keep the cooler filled.  After that I think you improve oil flow to the head all the time, including subsequent starts.  That, at least, is a theory that will be easy to prove once the project is complete.
Back to top
 
 

petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
  IP Logged
barry68v10
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 955
Maryland
Gender: male
Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #34 - 03/17/07 at 03:58:26
 
Quote:
With a gauge port at input and output, I'd think a couple of cheap bi-metal thermometers would tell all that needed to be known about temp differential:

http://www.weissinstruments.com/tempbimetal.htm


I went to the site and couldn't determine how much they cost.   What are we talking about here, $1, $5, $50?  Any idea?
Back to top
 
 

petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
  IP Logged
Savage_Greg
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline

Don't go around your
ass to reach your
elbow...

Posts: 7844
SW Washington State
Gender: male
Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #35 - 03/17/07 at 05:17:29
 
barry68v10 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
Greg, my motivation for installing the cooler the way I have it designed is two-fold:

1)  You absolutely will have some flow thru the cooler regardless of tube size simply because of the pressure differential.  Therefore, you will get some cooling benefit and that benefit will increase with increased oil temperature and therefore lower viscosity.


You'll get some.  I may have been too negative in my initial post, but I was considering the cooler from a maximum flow view point.

Can you remove those brass fitting and drill them out as large as possible?
Quote:
2)  You SHOULD get more oil flow to the head because of less overall restriction of oil flow from the pump to the filter housing.  This should improve lubrication to the top of the cylinder head which is the weak link from a lube standpoint.


Still have to question on this one.  The reason being is that the pump (upstream) and the passageways (downstream) are not changed.  The only way to know would be to put the gage on the filter housing, both with and without the use of the cooler.  Can you do that?  If you can confirm that pressure is increased in the housing, with the cooler installed, then it might increase flow. [/quote]

Quote:
I thought about the clear tubing option, but not a big fan of that option due to limited tube strength.  Like the temp gauge route but must be careful to test in same conditions.  Another route is to measure actual heat carried from oil cooler with a given oil temp, which would be the best way to determine efficiency.  Just not sure how I'd set up a test of the last case ???


Clear tubing wouldn't help much.  You couldn't really see through a reinforced piece of clear tubing anyway.

How about testing it with a gage on the filter housing?   Unfortunately it seems like you'd need another hole...or another side case...

Of course, as you stated early on, if you feel heat at the cooler, then logically heat is being carried away from the engine.
Back to top
 
 


  IP Logged
barry68v10
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 955
Maryland
Gender: male
Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #36 - 03/17/07 at 06:55:38
 
Quote:
Still have to question on this one.  The reason being is that the pump (upstream) and the passageways (downstream) are not changed.  The only way to know would be to put the gage on the filter housing, both with and without the use of the cooler.  Can you do that?  If you can confirm that pressure is increased in the housing, with the cooler installed, then it might increase flow.


I agree with you here.  My assumption was that the filter housing and later would have less restriction than the pump to filter housing.  That is not necessarily a valid assumption.  

I wonder if there's a way to take the cooled oil directly to the top of the head?  Although I think we already discussed this option and shot it down, tho I can't specifically remember...
Back to top
 
 

petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
  IP Logged
barry68v10
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 955
Maryland
Gender: male
Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #37 - 03/17/07 at 06:57:43
 
Yikes!  What happened to my last post?  I didn't look that way when I typed it...
Quote:
I disagreeumption was that the filter housing and later would have less restriction than the pump to filter housing.


What it should have said was, "My assumption was..."
Back to top
 
 

petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
  IP Logged
barry68v10
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 955
Maryland
Gender: male
Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #38 - 03/17/07 at 06:58:36
 
ARRRGGGHHHH!  I really dislike that word filter!

The word is A$$umption!
Back to top
 
 

petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
  IP Logged
Savage_Greg
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline

Don't go around your
ass to reach your
elbow...

Posts: 7844
SW Washington State
Gender: male
Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #39 - 03/17/07 at 07:17:03
 
barry68v10 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
I agree with you here.  My assumption was that the filter housing and later would have less restriction than the pump to filter housing.  That is not necessarily a valid assumption.  

I wonder if there's a way to take the cooled oil directly to the top of the head?  Although I think we already discussed this option and shot it down, tho I can't specifically remember...

What's funny is that when I look your message "quoted" the word is correct.  A_S_S_umption!

Is the ID of your fittings, hose, and cooler larger than the stock oil passageways?  That is the only way the resistance through your add-on would be lower.

Rerouting the oil to the head doesn't sound doable to me.  I'm sure that long oil passage inside the case is designed to distribute the oil in particular ratios to the top, bottom, and tranny (especially with that little brass jet)
Back to top
 
 


  IP Logged
azjay
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

aridzona...        
            its a
dry heat

Posts: 816

Gender: male
Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #40 - 03/17/07 at 07:23:49
 
Ed L. wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
Running a thermostat and three way valve would be cool but a but of overkill.  


didn't mean to imply a need for a t-stat, or control, simply reenforcing the parallel cooler design as "tried and true". i totally agree with full time flowing, more oil in circulation is better!

ed, THANKS for leading the way!
Back to top
 
 

dyna muff,1/2 spacer,152.5,55,drilled air box,idle mix,spark plug door,harley bars & seat,spitfire windshield,turn signal,dunlops,man.pethingy,ISO pegs,engine cage,hiway pegs,support 81
  IP Logged
Rockin_John
Serious Thumper
Alliance Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1562
+36° 10' , -95° 48'
Gender: male
Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #41 - 03/17/07 at 07:43:59
 
barry68v10 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:03:
I went to the site and couldn't determine how much they cost.   What are we talking about here, $1, $5, $50?  Any idea?



I just used that site as an example because it had a good selection and pictures, but if you want to contact them:

http://www.weissinstruments.com/contact.htm

I'm sure they'll be glad to set prices. They may be expensive, but I know there are lots of bi-metal gauges available in the $5-$10 range if you shop around.

They are used a lot in heating and air conditioning, and come in lots of temp ranges for anything from chilled water/refrigerent to boiler water/steam. Lots of other industrial and food processing uses where they can't be extremely expensive.

Put the phrase: bi-metal temperature gauge into Google and explore!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
justin_o_guy
Ex Member




Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #42 - 03/17/07 at 14:25:22
 
Guys, this isn't intended to run down the road, just a test, minutes long. I would splice a short piece of clear, not opaque, not reinforced, just clear tubing, onto the outlet of the cooler so I could see, just to get a general idea, the flow thru the cooler. Will it generate data that would ever be included in a manual? No way. But, it would give a guy a fair idea how much oil is flowing thru the cooler. It would make it easy to see if it was just a drizzle, for sure. It would cost a quarter & take 10 minutes to set up. The pressure & temperature wouldn't allow the tubing to last all that long I suspect. Isn't the oil pressure pretty low? Did I read somewhere it was about 7 pounds?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
barry68v10
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 955
Maryland
Gender: male
Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #43 - 03/17/07 at 14:31:56
 
I agree justin, my point is Ed_L is getting some pretty good head off his which proves to me it is getting decent flow.

Greg, my tube/fittings are slightly larger than stock passage.  I expect under 50% flow from my setup.  Maybe 30-40%, I'm guessing.

Now, if that improves overall cooling by 10%, I'll consider that significant.  But, more importantly, I think it may improve head cooling by 50% or more, since the head isn't really air cooled very well anyway.

Obviously, these numbers are WAGs at this point.  Some testing once install is complete should give better approximations.
Back to top
 
 

petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
  IP Logged
barry68v10
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline



Posts: 955
Maryland
Gender: male
Re: Oil cooler install update
Reply #44 - 03/17/07 at 14:33:22
 
Change the word "head" to "heat" in the previous post.  I.e. "Ed is getting some pretty good HEAT..."

I don't know what's wrong with my fingers.  They're not typing quite what I'm telling them too Embarrassed
Back to top
 
 

petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
09/23/24 at 02:14:28



General CategoryRubber Side Down! › Oil cooler install update


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.