SuzukiSavage.com - Cam Chain Free Play?

vroom1776

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Cam Chain Free Play?
10/24/06 at 09:26:50

Hey gang,

As you can see from my avatar (right click, view image), I've got the engine out and the head cover off...

If I pull straight up on the cam chain, it moves a little. Should it?

I know to measure the 20 (well, the number's in the manual) pitch, and check the tensioner, but so far I've not dug that deep.

and then I wonder, if I'm doing the cam chain and tensioner... pop the head off.. replace the gasket? (I have one)... bore it out and coat it... pollish the intake and exhaust ports (and there's that darn stud that sticks up into the port! maybe some washers beneath it... maybe not a good idea...)... decisions, decisions... Undecided

Oh, and I had an idea regarding the plug cap leak... a permanent solution! If I pop the head off, I am considering tapping it and making/buying a real bolt to fit in there w/ an O-ring. Any thoughts on this? A steel bolt should work, right (i.e. as opposed to Aluminum...)? The hole is a little less than 1", so a 1 1/18-7 UNC bolt should work... (tap size = 63/64)

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Savage_Rob Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Mechanically Inclined Amateur Posts: 6972 Texas (Dallas area) Gender:	Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Reply #1 - 10/24/06 at 11:10:50 I've sometimes wondered why they didn't use something like the oil filler cap for that.
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vroom1776

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Re: Cam Chain Free Play?
Reply #2 - 10/26/06 at 07:44:23

Well,

I've decided to take a chance and just slap the darn thing back together....

Anyway, on that plug, maybe a fine thread instead of a coarse thead... it holds oil... but then the oil drain plug is a more or less a coarse thread.

And I was thinking of why suzuki maybe didn't use a large plug: oil capacity. A large plug would take up room that maybe oil should...

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vroom1776

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Re: Cam Chain Free Play?
Reply #3 - 11/11/06 at 14:17:33

way too busy, engine not back together... Angry

can anyone answer my original question?

"If I pull straight up on the cam chain, it moves a little. Should it?" this is with the just the ehad cover off... nothing else...

I don't want to do this to my engine:

it wasn't making any terrible sounds... just that it's been 10k miles or so since it was replaced (not by me)... but I do abuse my savage...

I could pull all the stuff out and check it, but really I just want to get it back on the road

Anyone?

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Reelthing Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Fish or ride that is the question Posts: 5397 Houston,Tx Gender:	Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Reply #4 - 11/11/06 at 15:42:09 Yes, there is a little play if you pull up on it - about the only way to know for sure on the stretch is to measure the length - but to measure it right you gotta take it out - might as well replace it if you take it, not sure that sounds proper
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barry68v10

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Re: Cam Chain Free Play?
Reply #5 - 11/11/06 at 16:31:36

The "better" way is to measure chain deflection in the center with a specified amount of force applied. Unfortunately, I don't know what the proper chain deflection and force is for an LS650 cam chain. Typically, any more than about 4% of total chain length with normal "hand pressure" means the thing has worn to the point it needs to be replaced. Sorry for the lack of specifics, but that's common chain theory...

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Reelthing Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Fish or ride that is the question Posts: 5397 Houston,Tx Gender:	Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Reply #6 - 11/11/06 at 17:36:36 If one had the tools to gauge deflection it might be better, in their absence the Suzuki Service Manual is quite specific , measure the length of 21 pins of chain – the service limit is 128.9mm (5.07”) – longer than that it’s time to replace it. per the book
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barry68v10 Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 955 Maryland Gender:	Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Reply #7 - 11/11/06 at 17:51:30 Okay, that's a start! Let's do a little math...how many pins total is the CAM chain? You can measure deflection one-way to the other and divide by 2...Based on that number we can calculate the length of 21 pins.
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Reelthing Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Fish or ride that is the question Posts: 5397 Houston,Tx Gender:	Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Reply #8 - 11/11/06 at 19:49:05 132 pins - don't you have spare chain around?
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barry68v10

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Re: Cam Chain Free Play?
Reply #9 - 11/11/06 at 21:10:09

Ok. The easiest way to do this is force the center of the cam chain apart (not too tight, but enough to take the free-play out) and run a string or fishing line or whatever around the pins from 1-21 (be sure to hook the line on each pin as you go) and measure the line. That way you don't have to remove the chain or actually even do any "fancy" math. Grin

Gladly the spec in the manual is more useful than I originally thought...

Sorry, man. I already loaned out my spare cam chain Shocked

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petc0ck mod, white spacer removed, 150 main jet, 12.5" shocks, 16" turnout muff, oil cooler mod, chain conversion, Tkat brace, external fuel filter, fuel screen removed...

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Kropatchek Serious Thumper Offline Why more than 1 cylinder? Posts: 1457 Alphen a/d Rijn Netherlands Gender:	Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Reply #10 - 11/13/06 at 04:47:32 Another measurement can be taken to determine the wear of the camchain (and guides). When the Chain Tensioner is out for more than 18mm, measuring "piston -out" it's time to replace the chain AND the rear guide. That's the one pushed foreward by the Chain Tensioner. Greetz Kropatchek
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rokrover

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Re: Cam Chain Free Play?
Reply #11 - 11/13/06 at 14:00:17

In all the discussions I've read here about the short-lived cam chain I don't remember anyone mentioning the drive and cam sprockets. Usual thing for bicycle chains is for all components to wear and then be replaced together. It's false economy to put a new chain on worn sprockets. So I guess the sprockets don't wear in the Savage motor?

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vroom1776

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Re: Cam Chain Free Play?
Reply #12 - 11/13/06 at 16:36:23

Kropatchek wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:11:

Another measurement can be taken to determine the wear of the camchain (and guides).
When the spanner is out for more than 18mm, measuring "piston -out" it's time to replace the chain AND the rear guide. That's the one pushed foreward by the spanner.

Greetz
Kropatchek Grin

Spanner? I know what a spanner wrench is...

I am well aware of the 20 pitch length. Just trying to figure out w/ a gut feeling if I need to replace the chain, tensioner, guides... ain't got much $$$ (or time).

as far as how much I can pull it up, it is less than 2 mm, maybe less than 1 mm.

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Reelthing Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Fish or ride that is the question Posts: 5397 Houston,Tx Gender:	Re: Cam Chain Free Play? Reply #13 - 11/13/06 at 16:44:36 sounds about normal to me
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thumperclone

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Re: Cam Chain Free Play?
Reply #14 - 11/13/06 at 17:31:11

vroom1776 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:11:

Spanner? I know what a spanner wrench is...

I am well aware of the 20 pitch length. Just trying to figure out w/ a gut feeling if I need to replace the chain, tensioner, guides... ain't got much $$$ (or time).

as far as how much I can pull it up, it is less than 2 mm, maybe less than 1 mm.

think kropatchek means the cam chain tensioner... of course i could be wrong (not the last time either!!)
serv man ... check for "slides smoothly" or "rachet mechanism is faulty"replace as needed..

whoops hit the wrong button

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