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How fast do you think... (Read 289 times)
Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #30 - 06/22/06 at 08:41:03
 
I don't feel like I run out of power before I run out of gearing, so I plan on going to a bit taller tire when it gets to replacement time.
I'd like to think I could do the ton if I wanted.  I wouldn't do it of course.  Right.
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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LANCER
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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #31 - 06/22/06 at 09:19:11
 
I have not found any source for a high compression piston, so the only reasonable way to increase the compression is to remove material from the head or cylinder.  That would certainly perk up the engine.  I would like to go from the stock 8.5 to about 10:1.  More than that and I think there would be possible issues with octane levels in the fuel.

Personally, I prefer a bike with just enough power to pull about 90% of top gear.  That way you get to use virtually all of the power most of the time...and that is fun.  Power enough to take you to 100, or maybe a little more, is about all that is really needed.  But I do like to have lots of torque to go with the HP so that can have it really usable.
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klx650sm2002
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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #32 - 06/23/06 at 05:22:45
 
Hey Lancer

What squish clearance do you intend runnin', I've not read anything about the Savage but I was told 0.040" squish for the SR500,that seams a bit tight to me.

Clive W  Cheesy
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JerryAssburger
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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #33 - 06/23/06 at 07:04:25
 
You'd / We'd all have to work within the physics of the design....

6500 rpm redline is very close to maximum safe piston speed for an engine with a 94mm stroke. The cooling fins are set up for an engine that makes 30-40 hp, so it would need an oil cooler to compensate for the extra HP/heat you'll be generating. Then, of course, everyone has mentioned the gearing, which is short even with the stock 30hp output.
I've heard of people routinely getting 65-70 hp out of KTM 650 thumpers (flirting with the ragged edge), which I'm sure could be done with the Suzi.

Aerodynamics will help, of course... but how far do you go with that and still call it a Savage?

A friend and I have ridden a couple of times on the way home from work- (he has a HD 1200 Sporty with light mods) and we do the old, "roll on from 50 in top gear thing", and up 'til 70, I'm within 10 feet of his back wheel (look of shock on his face) and then above 70 he's gone. This is a very  respectable showing for a bike that is basically Suzi's take on the Rebel 450...
Think about it. It's designed to be a Good-looking, easy-to maintain, easy to ride, just-enough-performance bike that won't financially scare people  away from bikes. I'm happy with mine. I'll be even happier when I know for sure that running it at 65 mph down an interstate one tank at a time isn't pushing it too hard. Any opinions on that? I plan on a Roadtrip to and from Colorado (2000 mikes total).    

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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #34 - 06/23/06 at 07:45:13
 
I'd bet she'll handle it with aplomb, Jerry.

Good on you with the Sportster, too. I did the same thing with a random Honda 1100 cruiser the other day. He rolled on at about 55 thinking he'd lose me by 70, and I was right there with him. Perhaps out of fear of a ticket (or perhaps out of respect, as I'd like to believe), he stopped accellerating at 75 and we rode together from that point. He turned off a few miles before me and gave me the ol' motorcyclist wave/point thing. Good feeling.

Oil cooler, check. I still think the DR650 powerplant is begging to be put in the Savage frame. And I'd think any mods made to a Savage powerplant would likely do just as much if not more good on the more-powerful DR engine.

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Banger
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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #35 - 06/23/06 at 10:02:28
 
I think the problem witht he DR 650 engine is that it's too tall to fit in the savage frame.

The oil cooler is a good idea.  Having the cylinder ceramic coated would also help cooling a great deal, but it's already been mentioned.  

As the tank is off my bike right now, I was looking at the head.  If we had a new head completely redesigned... well there's about 15 mm of room between the top of the stock head and my frame.  Then Lancer could have oversized and HC pistons made.  I agree w/ the 10:1 CR, or maybe 11:1 at the most.   We could probably/maybe stroke it too, then.  To keep it's square nature, a 97 mm piston would then require a 3 mm stroke.

Also, while I was looking at the head... a "lot" of weight there could come off.  Like the bolt holes that hold the headcovers on... soem stuff left over from the manufacturing process.

Simplify the electical system.  We don't really need the decomp solenoid.  A manual lever will work fine... if you know what you are doing.  I think you could get the darn thing down to maybe 250 lbs or so.
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JerryAssburger
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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #36 - 06/23/06 at 11:11:26
 
Uh,ohhh. The tinkerer in me has awoken from its slumber..... For an oil cooler, how about this? I THINK that the chamber behind the oil filter cover is filled with oil when it's running, right? If someone were to mill a new cover that was about 1/2 inch thicker and about 2-3 inchest taller, and then mill horizontal cooling fins in it (front to back), you'd have a pretty effective air/oilcooler with just a bit of added ugliness, depending on how you finished it. I don't know what the inside of the cover looks like, or how hard it would be to duplicate but its a start. Here is a quicky drawing of what I'm thinking of... Since aluminum disipates heat so well, I think this would work out pretty good.
Oil flows behind the cover/ air flows outside the cover.
What do you think?

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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #37 - 06/24/06 at 05:02:22
 
Not bad. I think we'd better be moving the footpegs for aerodynamics, anyway. Thus, that wouldn't get in the way.

I would think you could buy an aftermarket radiator-like oil-cooler and just strap it to the downtube of the frame, though, right?

Regards,
Banger
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Ed L.
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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #38 - 06/24/06 at 12:03:15
 
I like that idea about using a different cover over the oil filter that is vented to act like an oil cooler. Instead of making a complete new cover wouldn't it be possible to take a thick piece of aluminium with fins cut into it and attach it to the existing oil filter cover. If it was machined right you could use longer oil filter cover bolts to mount it with, like a giant heat sink. I just checked and the cover isn't quite flat, it's got a bit of a curve to it so both sides need to be machined but it still might work.
  With a remote oil cooler where would you hook up and return? I was thinking that it would be possible to tap into the oil filter cover and return at the head. How about running the oil into an external filter by blocking off the stock filter with some sort of adapter that allows you to pull the oil out of the cover and return it to the spot where the stock filter sits. If there was a way to redirect the oil then you can do away with the stock filter, install an aftermarket one and hook up a cooler all in one shot. Hot darn I bet it could be done, can see how to do it and how to make it work.  Was over at the technical section checking out the oil filter thread and it looks like there is enough metal on the top side of the oil filter cover to be drilled and tapped for oil fittings so the lines could come out of the top of the cover.
 Next step is a prototype, anybody out there have a oil filter cover for cheep that I can bastardize? Don't care what it looks like Grin. Please PM me if you have one,
Thanks, Ed
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Silver '02, clubman handle bars, Cobra headlight, Sportster muffler, K+N stock air filter, 152.5 main, Superbrace, oil cooler, 1/2 inch aluminium plate forward controls, spark advance, goes like stink
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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #39 - 06/24/06 at 12:36:18
 
If you have a copy of the Suzuki shop manual you will find that there are in/out ports already tapped into the case's that can be used to attach an oil cooler.   One oil cooler made for HD's that can be had for only about $75 is available.  It has 2 legs with fins and comes in 2 versions...one with the legs parallel and the other with the legs in a slight V configuration.  It will be relatively easy to adapt it to the Savage and I would like to do that prior to the Sturgis ride in August.  We shall see if there are enough funds to get it done before then.
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Ed L.
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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #40 - 06/24/06 at 12:50:24
 
Hey, I didn't know that, spent all afternoon scribbling ideas for a adapter Undecided.
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Silver '02, clubman handle bars, Cobra headlight, Sportster muffler, K+N stock air filter, 152.5 main, Superbrace, oil cooler, 1/2 inch aluminium plate forward controls, spark advance, goes like stink
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mickthelimey
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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #41 - 06/25/06 at 00:50:19
 
You guys must have seen "The Worlds Fastest Indian" seems to me all that guy did was to have a huge rear sprocket,that's why he needed a good long push before he got that bugger rolling,once rolling he took 4 miles before he engaged 4th gear,and just hung on,you could only do it at the salt flats,thats the only place with the room,chain drive would be a must.
                     Mick
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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #42 - 06/25/06 at 07:32:01
 
I took a couple of pic's of the page in the shop manual (pg 4-10) to show the oil system routing and the 2 ports for attaching the lines "to" and "from" the oil cooler.  Adding an oil cooler would also enable adding an external oil filter as well.  Doing all of that would increase the total amount of oil in the system, make it much cooler, and keep it much cleaner.  I would likely cost less than $200 for the whole setup.  This would greatly enhance the life,duribility, even some power increase of the engine since the greatest aging problem for an engine is the junk in the oil that causes most of the wear.    Of course, the running temp would be reduced significantly.


Overview of oil route within engine.
 


Close-up of ports where IN & OUT  lines would be attached.  I highlighted the oil route as it would leave the engine case on the right, go through the oil cooler, and then re-enter the case on the bottom.  The ports are already there so it would be an easy job.  With the thread/bolt size of the ports the lines can be made to fit any cooler that would be desired.
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Ed L.
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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #43 - 06/25/06 at 08:16:33
 
Thanks Lancer for the diagrams, it's a lot better than what I was planning. Drilling and tapping the oil cover for oil lines would make the engine look a little like a Frankenstein.  Don't have the Suzuki manual for the Savage, only Clymer's. Extra oil capacity and more cooling is always a plus for any engine. If you get that Harley oil cooler hooked up take pictures, we all would love to see it.
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Silver '02, clubman handle bars, Cobra headlight, Sportster muffler, K+N stock air filter, 152.5 main, Superbrace, oil cooler, 1/2 inch aluminium plate forward controls, spark advance, goes like stink
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Re: How fast do you think...
Reply #44 - 06/25/06 at 08:58:18
 
Yes, definitely get pics if you do this.

And if it increases life of the engine, I'd be tempted to follow in your footsteps and do it myself. I always have my concerns since I'm riding the thing half the year at 65-70 mph. Trying to scrape together enough funds right now to do the K&N and re-jet, which will help, but the oil cooler sounds like it would be far more beneficial to the life of the engine than the carb rejet alone.

Got pics of the Harley oil coolers?

Regards,
Banger
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