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newbie/new s40 (Read 3 times)
thumperclone
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newbie/new s40
01/31/06 at 19:49:47
 
picked up my 06 s40 today got a bout 60 miles on er round town with one 3 mile jaunt down the I 70
the rings are set..talked to the service manager at the stealership about THE BACKFIRE....
he'll get back to me after he talks to his mechanic..( the one i saw ealier in the week beatin up the gum ball machine)so  i got this brand new machine i adore and
the ONLY local  suzuki shop( with  questionable staff)...
but whats life without challanges??
read here about re jet and the white spacer not ready to "bust " those nuts yet while still under warranty...
i can and will be one stubborn (s.o.b.)if need be..
meanwhile hi all im thumperclone... Wink
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Reelthing
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Re: newbie/new s40
Reply #1 - 01/31/06 at 19:57:32
 
Congrats! Now go get some more miles and smiles!
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Re: newbie/new s40
Reply #2 - 01/31/06 at 20:18:34
 
You can improve the backfiring by just pulling the plug over the slow speed mixture screw and richening up the mixture.

I don't know if a dealership is willing to do that (with EPA regs and all). It can't hurt to ask.
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thumperclone
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Re: newbie/new s40
Reply #3 - 01/31/06 at 20:29:19
 
yes to the mix screw..thanks
lookin at the super trapp for my s40 how is it for your bike ,did you re jet?? how many plates ??  thanks
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Dynobob
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Re: newbie/new s40
Reply #4 - 01/31/06 at 20:36:11
 
thumperclone wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
yes to the mix screw..thanks
lookin at the super trapp for my s40 how is it for your bike ,did you re jet?? how many plates ??  thanks

Yes I rejetted. 157.5 main jet. 1/2 white spacer. Slow mixture screws out...oh...1 1/2 or 2 turns. It made a drastic difference in power and driveability. It's a very fun bike now Grin I wasn't too impressed when it was stock. I like that muffler alot. I did have to cut some off the header pipe so the mounts would line up.
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Re: newbie/new s40
Reply #5 - 01/31/06 at 20:40:08
 
I think it would be a good time to repost my favorite article about the deacceleration popping. It pretty much sums it up. And don't think it's just the Savage that does this. Most new bikes do.

quote:

Savage Backfire
(from January 1997 RIDER magazine's Tech Q&A)

Q) I purchased a new Suzuki Savage 650 last July. From the very beginning the motorcycle would backfire when decelerating or coming to a stop. I took it back to the dealer twice before the 600-mile service, and complained about it at the initial service. I have tried different grades of gasoline and they seem to have no effect. The dealer has told me that I should expect backfiring with the design of this engine and that it should decrease as I build up mileage. I have 900 miles on the bike now and backfiring doesn't seem to be decreasing. I have found other riders of Suzuki Savages that are having the same problem. - Jay Coney, Kerrville, Texas.

A) This column receives a lot of mail over the course of a month, and the single biggest gripe among our readers are problems with lean-running. late-model carbureted bikes.

The poor old LS 650 really suffers at the hands of the EPA, and I certainly sympathize with you, Coney. We can fix it, but first let me explain the hows and whys.

When the throttle of any engine is rolled or snapped shut, some fuel is drawn through the engine and kicked out the exhaust without being burned. In abundance, this raw fuel vapor can be smelled, tasted - and when light is passed through it- seen. It's referred to as photo-hydrocarbons or more commonly smog. Yes, there are several other pollutants coming out of the exhaust, but the human senses can't detect them. The manufacturer of motorcycles have three methods of dealing with excessive hydrocarbons. Forcing air down into the exhaust port with an air pump and diluting the outgoing fuel vapor is one method. Kawasaki pioneered this method with their 'Clean Air System', which employed a vacuum-driven pump that puffed air through reed valves placed over the exhaust system. A 'cat' is nothing more than an oven which bakes the hydrocarbons, burning them off.

The most common method is to simply lean out the carburetor. The low-speed and midrange circuits of the late-model carburetor are not adjusted to give optimum performance - they're set up to produce a minimum hydrocarbon count on deceleration. What miserly amount of fuel they do deliver to the combustion chamber when the throttle is closed causes misfire and an audible afterfire in the exhaust pipe.

Now, I haven't mentioned fuel injection or other exhaust gases. As I said, the bulk of complaints from readers of this column is deceleration backfire and also poor idling of carbureted engines. No doubt we'll get around to discussing other emission-control devices and their problems in future issues.

Getting back to your Savage 650, Coney, here's how we can specifically cure its problem. We need to richen those two areas of the curburetion curve that are factory set on the ridiculous side of leanness. Remove the diaphragm slide from the carburetor and look down inside its bore. Two small screws hold a plate over the slide needle. Removing the plate, you'll see a small, white plastic spacer with a hole through it sitting on top of the needle. Throw that spacer away and reinstall the plate. A spring under the needle clip will now push the needle up to the plate occupying the space vacated by the white spacer. The distance that the needle has been 'lifted' is the thickness of the discarded spacer - and that's ideal. With the needle raised, more fuel will flow by it, meeting the actual needs of midrange running.

We can also fatten up the low end of your bike's carburetor by turning out the low-speed mixture screw. To gain access to this screw, you'll need to drill out the brass plug pressed in over it and yank it out with a sheet-metal screw attached to a slide hammer. You'll find that plug up high on the right side of the carb about where the mouth enters the carburetor. Usually Suzuki applies a splash of white paint over the brass plug so that it's immediately noticeable. With the engine warmed up and idling, turn the mixture screw out incrementally until you achieve the highest idle. There will be no doubt in your mind that you're making progress because the idle will come up and sound stronger. At this point, turn the idle adjuster knob out and bring the idle back down to a leisurely gait.

Just these two, relatively simple adjustments will not only eliminate the backfire, they will make an amazing improvement in throttle response and driveability.

 -------------------------------------------------------------------

It's the general concensus on this forum that eliminating the white spacer will result in a too rich condition. 1/2 a white spacer seems ideal for bikes with modified exhaust.
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Re: newbie/new s40
Reply #6 - 01/31/06 at 22:28:53
 
Who ever wrote this article has some BASIC knowledge.
When I red the article, I tryed to send him an email, but it didn't work. There are some significant inaccuracies.
1. The problematic gas we are talking about is CO , not HC. High CO-rich, low CO-lean.
2.Kawasaki has never had an air pump. This guy doesn't make a diff between a vacuum operated valve and pump. He mixes the 80's cars that realy had a belt driven air pump, and the bikes.
3.I think all of us already know, that to throw away the plastic spacer is a mistake- this is why everybody is going roughly with 1/2 spacer /or washers/. Without the spacer You will end-up with an extremely rich spot off idle and the only way to deal with it is to roll the gas fast .
4. About the pilot screw and pilot jet- the general rule of thumb is that the adjustment should be between 1.5 and 3.5 turns out. If You have to make 5 turns out- may be it will be better  one size bigger pilot jet. If You have to turn the pilot screw all the way in to get the best idle- may be You should go one size down on the pilot jet, or the fuel level is too high.
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Steve530
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Re: newbie/new s40
Reply #7 - 01/31/06 at 23:01:01
 
Hi Slavy,

High CO and HC both indicate that the engine is running rich. An engine that is burning all of the fuel completely produces no CO and there is no HC in the exhaust, only CO2 and water.  

I think the writer's point is that HC causes photochemical smog (ground level ozone).  

Steve
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slavy
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Re: newbie/new s40
Reply #8 - 02/01/06 at 08:59:49
 
Steve,
CO is PARTUALY burned fuel. The fuel started to burn, but did not finish the process. This is how lean or rich the engine is running. HC is UNBURNED fuel. Because one or other reason the fuel molecules did not even start the process/ it could be a spark problem, compression, or TOO LEAN OR TOO RICH/. There is a perfect air-fuel ratio, where the engine runns the cleanest. Leaner or richer causes the engine to run worse and dirtier. If You have the bike on EGA and You keep turning IN the idle screw, You will notise that pass certain point the CO will keep going down, but the HC will drastically jump UP and the bike will start "limping" untill it dies.  If You start turning  OUT the CO will go UP and after You pass the best running  / best reading on the EGA/ , You will notice, that both CO and HC will go UP, but the jump in the HC will not be so drastic.
 About the Kawasaki's air induction system- if You have Kawasaki handy, and You have an access to EGA , You can plug the hose between the air box and the AIR VALVE / not pump/ , this way disabling the air induction system and wach the change in the readings of the EGA. The CO will jump a lot and the HC will BARELY move UP.
About the perfect running engine , that doesn't produce CO- Yes, but so far there is no such an engine. This will happen if ALL the gas molecules get EXACTLY  as much O2 as needed. If You give MORE air- the gas molecules get spread too far apart and the flame front does't get to all of them- You are spitting raw  fuel /lean missfire/-high HC reading. To deal with the imperfections of our world we have to compromise. This is Why we have EPA standarts. For 4-stroke bike CO-up to 5.5% and HC- up to 1800 PPM /parts per milion/. If Yoou play on EGA, You will find, that the lowest HC readings for MOST bikes are about 1-1.5 % CO. Up to about 4.5% the HC doesnt't go up too much and the bike performs good and once You go over 6% , HC  USUALLY starts climbing significantly and You start having weird idling. Because of the imperfections of the carb's if You go with the leanest and cleanest idle, You USUALLY end-up with a flat spot off idle, so USUALLY i like to set the idle mix. at 2.5-3.2% CO.
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Re: newbie/new s40
Reply #9 - 02/01/06 at 16:50:04
 
my head hurts just reading this thread, all those big words and such.  Grin

i'll explain it in plain english.  tune up good. oil good.
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thumperclone
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Re: newbie/new s40
Reply #10 - 02/01/06 at 18:32:07
 
one thing i dont see mentioned is elevation  my residence is at 4500' above sea level this summer a trip to  some higer country 10,000' or more..leaner is better
reply in plain terms if at all.. thanks
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Re: newbie/new s40
Reply #11 - 02/01/06 at 18:58:31
 
yes. at 4500 ft maybe a 150,147.5 and if your going to 10k i'd take the stock 145 with me, ain't got no air up there  
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Re: newbie/new s40
Reply #12 - 02/01/06 at 19:06:21
 
Slavy,

I guess I'm looking at from a theoretical view and you're looking at it from a practical view.  For example, I was assuming that the engine was in good working order.

It is possible to have partially unburned HC. That's the smoke.

I agree it's difficult to get just the right amount of air to burn all of the fuel.  That's an A/F ratio of 14.7:1.  Cars with electronic fuel injection do a good job maintaining that ratio.  I don't know if the FI motorcycles do that well. Have you tested a FI bike?

Steve
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'97 Black / 1/2 white spacer
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snorkel removed / K&N drop in / seat raised
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Re: newbie/new s40
Reply #13 - 02/01/06 at 19:40:40
 
Steve, I haven't played with FI bike. There is almost nothing I can do with a screwdriver and  a couple of wrenches there. The only thing You can usually do is to put a "power comander" or "Dyna" boxes, to compensate for changing the stock exhaust /equal to rejetting in the carbureted bikes. My job has always been to squeze the most out of a bike with possible the least $. Here one of the biggest issues for the carbureted bikes is to pass the emission test. 90% of the time the problem is overly lean running caused by plugged or partualy plugged jets. In these cases You see very low CO and the bikes fail the HC standart.
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Re: newbie/new s40
Reply #14 - 02/01/06 at 19:54:25
 
Slavy,

I see you're in Phoenix. That explains your work with emissions.

Yep the FI doesn't give you much to play with. Either it works or it doesn't and no adjustment.

So plugged jets gives you high HC and low CO.  I wonder if that means the enigne is missing?

Steve
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'97 Black / 1/2 white spacer
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snorkel removed / K&N drop in / seat raised
Slipstreamer SS30 windshield
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