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Need help with carb/backfire (Read 104 times)
Tony
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Need help with carb/backfire
09/21/05 at 08:39:32
 
I am having trouble getting my carb tuned right. I have an '05 S40. I have already performed the White Spacer Mod and replaced the main jet with a 155. I installed both a Sportster Muffler and a K&N air filter. No matter how I adjust the mixture it seems to backfire whenever I shift or when coasting down to a lower speed. The poping gets worse when putting back pressure on the engine such as coasting down a steep hill. I started the mixture at 2 turns out and adjusted both ways using 1/4 turn intervals. Do I need to change the Pilot jet as well?
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Dynobob
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Re: Need help with carb/backfire
Reply #1 - 09/21/05 at 09:54:43
 
The first thing I would do would be to make sure you have no exhaust leaks. Replace the crush gasket where the header pipe connects to the cylinder if you've loosened it at any time. Seal the muffler to header pipe connection with Permatex high temp silicone. Make sure you get the high temp for exhausts.

Popping on deacceleration is due to leaness in the slow mixture screw / pilot jet. You don't need to go to a bigger pilot jet unless you screw the slow mixture screw out alot (4 turns +) and still need more richness. I think at 2 turns out you should be fine. That's about where mine is set with the stock pilot jet. Turn the scew out a bit more and see if that helps with the deacceleration popping.
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mmm63
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Re: Need help with carb/backfire
Reply #2 - 09/22/05 at 10:08:05
 
Hello - I have a 05 boulevard 650 and it has been in the shop 3 times so far for such backfiring that it shakes the bike.  I also backfires about 8 times per day.  The shop tells me that there is nothing else they can do about it due it being a single cylinder and all single cylinder bikes do this.  Does anyone else have this problem with there suzuki single cylinder??
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Paladin.
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Re: Need help with carb/backfire
Reply #3 - 09/22/05 at 10:28:04
 
Fixing the Backfire.  AFAIK, the dealer is not allowed to do so legally.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1104205157

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Savage_Rob
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Re: Need help with carb/backfire
Reply #4 - 09/22/05 at 10:34:47
 
A Savage backfiring?  Hmmmm, let me think if I've ever heard that mentioned before.....
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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torque
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Re: Need help with carb/backfire
Reply #5 - 09/22/05 at 11:31:11
 
Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:09:
A Savage backfiring?  Hmmmm, let me think if I've ever heard that mentioned before.....


[glow=red,2,300]ROFLMAO! Grin [/glow]
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mmm63
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Re: Need help with carb/backfire
Reply #6 - 09/22/05 at 13:12:34
 
I just joined this site and asked about my 05 backfiring.  I have got replies like they never heard this before and roflao and I don't get it. Is the backfiring common or what.  I am being serious that this is a big problem for me.  It has caused me to wreck once all ready. I was going around a bend on a gravel road and it backfired and shook the bike and down I went!!  I have a friend who has the same bike and hers never backfired once!
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torque
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Re: Need help with carb/backfire
Reply #7 - 09/22/05 at 13:26:07
 
[glow=red,2,300]ROFLMAO [/glow]    (rolling on floor laughing my as$ off) there are around 1000 posts covering this topic just look back a couple of pages.

damm it. Roll Eyes
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Need help with carb/backfire
Reply #8 - 09/22/05 at 14:04:39
 
Better yet.  Do a search.  This site's search function works well.  Just remember to set it for more than the default of 7 days back.  I usually use 500 for mine but for a topic as well covered as backfiring, 60 should do it.  Paladin's post above should've explained a lot if you click on the link and check out the post it leads to.
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1998|MAC muffler|ceramic coated header|K&N air filter|Amal Mk2 carb|Odyssey battery|iridium plug|NC windshield|Dunlop 491s|Superbrace|EBC brake rotor|12.5" Progressive shocks|Kuryakyn ISO grips
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Tony
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Re: Need help with carb/backfire
Reply #9 - 10/02/05 at 18:34:38
 
OK, I know I have the same old question again but:

For some reason I cannot seem to get my carb tuned correctly with the K&N air filter.  I have  already done the spacer mod and installed a 155 main jet. Backfires are constant at a throttle down, including shifting. I reinstalled the stock filter and the bike runs great with little or no backfire. I searched the old topics and it apears i have done everything. Do I need a bigger jet or a different pilot jet?
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Need help with carb/backfire
Reply #10 - 10/02/05 at 19:01:39
 
I wouldn't go to a bigger jet.  I have the K&N direct swap air filter and a MAC muffler and the 152.5 is doing very well for me.  One of the prime causes I've had for backfiring has been exhaust leaks.  Make sure you don't have any between the cylinder and the header or between the header and the muffler.  There are gaskets for both connection points.  That's not to say you couldn't have a problem somewhere else but it's a fairly easy thing to fix and, at least for me, was the primary cause for problems with backfiring.
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DavidV
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Re: Need help with carb/backfire
Reply #11 - 10/02/05 at 19:28:19
 
And don't snug the header-to-head bolts when the bike is warm.  Very bad.  

I'm running the same basic setup as you.  The backfiring was mild with the Sportster muffler. I just got an occasional shut-down huff or some putter on decel.  The big bang was gone after the 155 jet & white spacer mod.  Going to a Screamin' Eagle muffler didn't change it much.  Now it pops a little during shifts - no big deal.

You should definitely look for a loose exhaust connection.  

And welcome aboard!
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Tony
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Re: Need help with carb/backfire
Reply #12 - 10/03/05 at 03:40:07
 
I verified that I have no exhaust leaks. What I find confusing is that when running the stock filter everything runs great!
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Need help with carb/backfire
Reply #13 - 10/03/05 at 06:05:25
 
Tony wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:
I verified that I have no exhaust leaks. What I find confusing is that when running the stock filter everything runs great!

I don't want to harp on this too much but I do want to emphasize it.  I did not think I had an exhaust leak either but I did have one between the cylinder head and the header pipe.  Because of the way the header is recessed into the cylinder head, you may not see any soot or feel a leak.  The gasket ring inside can become misshapen with loosening and tightening of the header.  It's less than $4 at RonAyers (see part #2) and it's worth having a spare anyway.  I went without changing it for a while because I saw no evidence of a leak and was frustrated with the backfiring.  I even removed it and looked at it.  The problem was that I didn't know how much different it was from a new one until I had a new one to compare it to.  Just my .02.  Good luck.
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Re: Need help with carb/backfire
Reply #14 - 10/03/05 at 09:45:00
 
Tony wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:
OK, I know I have the same old question again but:

For some reason I cannot seem to get my carb tuned correctly with the K&N air filter.  I have  already done the spacer mod and installed a 155 main jet. Backfires are constant at a throttle down, including shifting. I reinstalled the stock filter and the bike runs great with little or no backfire. I searched the old topics and it apears i have done everything. Do I need a bigger jet or a different pilot jet?


********

Tony, you have provided the information needed for the fix in what you have already stated..."backfires with the K&N .....does not backfire much with the stock air filter".  
What this tells you is that you are running LEAN with the K&N, because the K&N flows much more air which leans out the fuel/air ratio.  When you put the stock filter back on, it does not flow as much air which makes for a richer fuel/air mixture.  
So, in order to use the K&N (which is preferrable) you need to compensate for the extra air flow, and the way to do that is to provide more fuel...in the pilot circuit...so you need to go up a size on the pilot jet.

This does assume of course that there are no air leaks (as stated before) and that you are correctly tuning the pilot jet adjustment screw.

Keep in mind that a main jet change affects 3/4 -full throttle.
A white spacer or clip position change on the needle affects 1/4-3/4 throttle.
A pilot jet change and screw adjustment affects idle-1/4 throttle...AND THIS IS WHERE THE BACKFIRING ON DECELERATION  ISSUE COMES FROM.

***Note that I said "throttle position"...not speed or rpm.  Throttle position is what changes where the slide is in the carb.  You will find that almost all backfiring on deceleration occurs when the throttle is at or near the idle position, and this is when the carb is operating in the pilot circuit...regardless of the mph or rpm.
The problem is caused by an incorrectly jetted/tuned pilot circuit...and the FIX must be within the same  pilot circuit.
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