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white spacer and jetting (Read 49 times)
LANCER
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #30 - 01/11/05 at 21:19:07
 
Ah, home sweet home.
I wanted to pass along the exact numbers on the cam that WEBCAMS ground for me.

          MAX LIFT              DURATION @ .050 lift      

Stock:  .254 In/.244 Ex         224 deg

Perf:    .264 In/.264 Ex          239 deg

WEBCAMS offered 10  different cam profiles to choose from...7 had more lift but not as much duration...this one I chose was right in the middle of the "midrange torque" group.   It has worked out quite well.  
Their website is  www.webcamiinc.com., and the phone is 909-369-5144...1815 Massachusetts Ave, Riverside, CA 92507 USA.
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klx650sm2002
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #31 - 01/12/05 at 04:01:39
 
Thanks a lot lancer, I like high lift cams.

Clive W  Cheesy
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Kropatchek
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #32 - 01/12/05 at 06:21:37
 
klx650sm2002 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
Thanks a lot lancer, I like high lift cams.

Clive W  Cheesy


Just to remind you: more than 1/4 of the diameter of the valve is useless. Shocked
Better get the valves open quickly eg steeper angle. The valves stay open longer and the cylinder is filled more.

Greetz
Kropatchek Grin

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'93 Sav in '96 ( yellow) looks
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klx650sm2002
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #33 - 01/13/05 at 00:26:45
 
The cams lancer is talking about are not lifting more than a 1/4 of valve diameter anyway. I was talking relatively.

Clive W  Cheesy
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LANCER
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #34 - 01/13/05 at 22:32:25
 
The highest lift that was offered was  .275", and that had a duration of only 229 deg at .050" lift.  The tech guy I talked to prior to the work being done kept talking about the RAMP  of the lobe...I think....it has been awhile...he did not want to make too steep of a ramp...something about  not  being too steep of a slope.
Anyway, based on what he said at the time, I decided to go with the more moderate numbers and it has worked very well.
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klx650sm2002
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #35 - 01/14/05 at 00:17:41
 
The other option for more performance is bigger valves, this is where the KLX scores with 37mm in 32mm ex and the savage has 33mm in and 28mm ex. with valve area being proportional to diameter squared that is 25.7% more inlet and 30.6% more exhaust area.I don't have the lift figures for the standard cams but the duration is about 224 degrees @.050in lift.

Clive W  Cheesy
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LANCER
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #36 - 01/14/05 at 08:57:28
 
A significant difference indeed.  Is there room on the Savage head for valves of that size?  I am not knowledgeable enough about the specific deminsions of the Savage head to know.  It would be nice though.
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klx650sm2002
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #37 - 01/15/05 at 01:06:24
 
With the above numbers I made the assumption that valve lift increased in proportion with the valve diameter.

Clive W  Cheesy
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #38 - 01/15/05 at 08:20:42
 
Whoa...I tuned in a little bit late on this one.  

You had the stock cam reground?  They also reworked the cam gear?

Plus you have an over bore too?  This is too cool.

Maybe I missed it...did you post the link to webcams?

Sounds like my next project is coming up...
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LANCER
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #39 - 01/15/05 at 19:29:45
 
The cam was reground by WEBCAMS out of Riverside, California.  They can be found at www.webcaminc.com.  The cam gear was sent along just to aid them in the cam work.  I had it done almost two years ago.  I experienced a massive oil loss on the freeway one fine Sunday afternoon.  The result was actually fairly mild.  The piston and cylinder were damaged and needed replacement, and not knowing of the 97 mm jug at Weisco at the time, I went with one size over from Suzuki.  The head, including the cam, and the bottom end were fine...I run synthetic oil and believe that helped minimize damage.  I have a great insurance company...they totaled the bike at $4600, and I bought it back from them for 25% of the settlement...A GOOD DEAL FOR ME!  So, when it came time to put it back together I sent the cam off for the regrind, sent the new piston and the damaged cylinder to BORETECH for the rebore and silicone-carbide treatment, searched out and bought several mufflers (currently have Performance Design)and carbs (using Edelbrock flatslide) for try-outs, picked up a nice windshield from Dennis-Kirks ebay store, and a few other odds and ends.  All in all, of the $2500 in cash I ended up with from the insurance, it cost me about $1500 to put it back together again.  It is not a screamer but it does run pretty strong.  I am kind of heavy handed on the throttle but the bike seems to be happy with my riding habits.  It just keeps on ticking.  When accelerating I shift from 3rd to 4th at just before 80 mph.  I have a tach but it is a cheap one and gets pretty jumpy by 6000.  The bike will turn 6500-7000 through 4th...on occasion it will go up to the 8000 range...not sure why...I think the engine has a rev limiter that fails to function some times...DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THERE IS A REV LIMITER?  Anyway, 5th gear tops at just over 6500 +/-  at about 105 mph.  
My next project is to fix the suspension.  I have a set of Ceriani forks to put on...hopefully everything will fit properly...I am kind of tired of fabricating.  Then the rear shocks will be replaced with some that actually provide some range of motion.
I do not get to ride a lot...assorted physical things...but love to when I am able.

By the way, this Savage was a Father's Day gift from my son a few years back...GOOD BOY!!
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klx650sm2002
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #40 - 01/16/05 at 02:20:58
 
The red line on my KLX (83mm stroke) is 7500, the same piston speed on the savage (94mm stroke) gives 6500 which I thought it was limited to but aparently not.
Lancer what header i.d. are You using, and what length?
Thanks

Clive W  Cheesy
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klx650sm2002
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #41 - 01/16/05 at 02:44:33
 
Hey Lancer
As You know I run a Keihin FCR41,have You tried any other than the Edelbrock?
Thanks

Clive W  Cheesy
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #42 - 01/16/05 at 06:11:29
 
LANCER wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
The cam was reground by WEBCAMS out of Riverside, California.  They can be found at www.webcaminc.com.  The cam gear was sent along just to aid them in the cam work.  I had it done almost two years ago.  I experienced a massive oil loss on the freeway one fine Sunday afternoon.  The result was actually fairly mild.  The piston and cylinder were damaged and needed replacement, and not knowing of the 97 mm jug at Weisco at the time, I went with one size over from Suzuki.  The head, including the cam, and the bottom end were fine...I run synthetic oil and believe that helped minimize damage.  I have a great insurance company...they totaled the bike at $4600, and I bought it back from them for 25% of the settlement...A GOOD DEAL FOR ME!  So, when it came time to put it back together I sent the cam off for the regrind, sent the new piston and the damaged cylinder to BORETECH for the rebore and silicone-carbide treatment, searched out and bought several mufflers (currently have Performance Design)and carbs (using Edelbrock flatslide) for try-outs, picked up a nice windshield from Dennis-Kirks ebay store, and a few other odds and ends.  All in all, of the $2500 in cash I ended up with from the insurance, it cost me about $1500 to put it back together again.  It is not a screamer but it does run pretty strong.  I am kind of heavy handed on the throttle but the bike seems to be happy with my riding habits.  It just keeps on ticking.  When accelerating I shift from 3rd to 4th at just before 80 mph.  I have a tach but it is a cheap one and gets pretty jumpy by 6000.  The bike will turn 6500-7000 through 4th...on occasion it will go up to the 8000 range...not sure why...I think the engine has a rev limiter that fails to function some times...DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THERE IS A REV LIMITER?  Anyway, 5th gear tops at just over 6500 +/-  at about 105 mph.  
My next project is to fix the suspension.  I have a set of Ceriani forks to put on...hopefully everything will fit properly...I am kind of tired of fabricating.  Then the rear shocks will be replaced with some that actually provide some range of motion.
I do not get to ride a lot...assorted physical things...but love to when I am able.

By the way, this Savage was a Father's Day gift from my son a few years back...GOOD BOY!!


Others have mentioned a rev limiter on the Savage, and since some other bikes have then it is sort of assumed the Savage does too.

However in all the tech stuff in the manual, there is no mention of such that I have found.  Maybe since the stock Savage is basically under powered that Suzuki just figured that it would run out of air before self destructing anyway.
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LANCER
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #43 - 01/16/05 at 10:12:36
 
Like you, I have not seen anything in writing in the tech stuff that specifically identify's a rev limiter...that was why I included the question in my earlier post.  It sure feels like one is there though.  I wonder if the ignition system could be a bit weak (afterall, Suzuki didn't exactly put the best of parts into the Savage) and it just is not up to the additional power of a modified engine???? [color=Yellow][/color]What do you think?  Could that be the weak link?
Anyway.....
I still have the stock header for now.  I am hoping to test some others in a few months.  I do not have an inclosed shop/garage to work in so am at the mercy of the weather for car/motorcycle work.  I am in South Carolina so by March-April I should be good to go.  I want to build 3 headers with 1.5", 1.625", and 1.75" ID for the test.  I will also include in the setup a connector on each of them so I can add various lengths to the header...probably for 30", 33", and 36" lengths.  I would like, IF POSSIBLE, to make a reverse cone megaphone to try on it....to include a removable baffle for the pipe, just before the megaphone.  The Goldstar I had back when, had a reverse meg and I loved the sound of that thing....just beautiful when it was running hard.
In the carb area, I have tried both the flat and round slide Edelbrock, 38mm each, 36mm and 38mm Mikuni VM round slide, and various stages of the stock CV Mikuni.
As stated, the Edelbrock flatslide is on it now and runs very good.  The Edelbrock round slide was really good too, in some ways better than the flatslide.  However, stupid me, I let it go in a sale to a Harley guy.  Oh well!!  The Mikuni VM round slides are quite good also, nearly identical to the Edelbrock round slide.  (I think Edelbrock designed theirs after the Mikuni, but did a little bit better job of it)  The stock CV responds fairly well to upgrades and will give good performance but lacks the crisp throttle response of the round and flatslides.  The nature of the CV system is just slow...the lag time of the vacum operated throttle valve.  
It all comes down to how you like to ride.  For easy cruising the CV is fine, but if you like to blast around a little then you can appreciate the round and flatslides quicker response.  It is quite noticeable.
Ya'll have a good day.

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klx650sm2002
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Re: white spacer and jetting
Reply #44 - 01/17/05 at 06:10:41
 
The coil on the KLX is weak above 40bhp so I use an iridium plug to nurse it.
The header I use on KLX is 36" long(works best around 6500 and 3250)and 41.25mm(1.624")I.D., roughly the same as the carb.
imho the pipe must be the same I.D. as the carb or bigger, not smaller.So I agree with the dimensions You are wanting to test.

Clive W  Cheesy

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