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Just a little black smoke? (Read 16 times)
SeeAPierce
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Just a little black smoke?
01/14/06 at 22:56:21
 
I've just finished up my Sportster muffler change out on my '06 S40.  I did the 10 degree adapter method with a nice chrome heat shield to cover.  Looks great, sounds great, runs great.

152.5 Main jet
Stock Pilot Jet
Stock air filter
(2) #4 washers in place of white spacer

Only thing is I get the smallest little puff of black smoke out the muffler when I snap the throttle closed.  Is that ok?  Is it "normal"?  That would indicate a rich condition at idle right?  I used to have the idle mixture screw at 1.25 turns out from stock, but since I got it back from the dealer service I don't know what it is...I think they changed it and now it won't seems to budge CW or CCW...stuck.

Ideas?  Should I leave it alone?
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'06 S40 green: sporty muff & 10 degree adapter 155 main jet, 1/2 white spacer, open filter, bar end turn signals
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Reelthing
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Re: Just a little black smoke?
Reply #1 - 01/14/06 at 23:00:54
 
I'd leave it be if it idles reasonable and doesn't die when let off the throttle - a little black puff is far better than lean - may need to have a talk with you dealer about fooling around with your tune - the vast majority know next to nothing about it other than just following the book
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Steve530
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Re: Just a little black smoke?
Reply #2 - 01/14/06 at 23:07:39
 
It's hard to see how they could have fixed it so that the idle mixture doesn't turn. But if it's running good, I would leave it alone.

Steve

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'97 Black / 1/2 white spacer
155 main jet / 55 pilot jet / Dyna muffler
snorkel removed / K&N drop in / seat raised
Slipstreamer SS30 windshield
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LANCER
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Re: Just a little black smoke?
Reply #3 - 01/15/06 at 05:23:52
 
Since you just put the muffler on you really should adjust the pilot circuit.  It is easy to do.
After the engine is warmed up (at idle for 4-5 min)...

-start with the pilot adjusting screw at 1.5 turns out as a reference point, and count as you turn in and out so you always know where you are during the process.  Everything is done and referenced in the "# of turns out".
-turn idle up a little so you have a smooth fast idle
-turn pilot adjusting screw "in" until engine begins to slow downand note the # of turns out
-turn pilot adjusting screw "out" until engine begins to slow (it will speed up initially then go down) and note the # of turns out
-then set the pilot adjusting screw in the "Happy middle" of those two positions
-after the pilot circuit is happy, turn the idle adjusting screw back down for the idle you desire.

*for ex...if the turn in setting was at 1 turn out, and the turn out settig was 3 turns out, then the happy middle is 2 turns out.
**Turn slowly as you do this, no more than 1/8 or 1/4 turn at a time...then pause and wait 5 seconds or so in order to give the engine time to adjust, then turn again if necessary.  If you have a tach, then you can set the pilot adjusting screw by just tuning for max rpm, then set idle speed.
***If after you have finished this process, the pilot adjusting screw is 2.5 -3 turns out, then you definitely need the next larger pilot jet.  For myself, if I go over 2 turns out then I go up to the next size pilot jet.

When the pilot is properly adjusted, and assuming there are no exhaust leaks in the system, you will not have any backfiring.  It is normal to have some mild crackling and popping on brisk-hard deceleration, but there will not be any backfiring.

HAPPY TUNING  Grin
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Jim_R
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Re: Just a little black smoke?
Reply #4 - 01/15/06 at 06:03:20
 
yeah I agree with lancer, u might need to get the 55 pilot jet, but heck why dont u get a k&n drop in filter also?  Im sure u will feel the power difference.
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SeeAPierce
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Re: Just a little black smoke?
Reply #5 - 01/15/06 at 10:47:24
 
LANCER wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
Since you just put the muffler on you really should adjust the pilot circuit.  It is easy to do.
After the engine is warmed up (at idle for 4-5 min)...

-start with the pilot adjusting screw at 1.5 turns out as a reference point


Thanks Lancer - is the pilot adjusting screw the same as the idle mixture screw?  This is the screw that I can't get to move.  I scored the screw slightly when I drilled out the plug, but it was usable until the bike went to the dealer for its break in service.  Now that screw won't move.  I have a new one on order and if I can get the old one out I will follow your instructions on adjustment.

Jim_R - yea, I plan on a K&N, but like to make changes one at a time...get things right, ride for a few weeks, then make the next change.  I'm just slow about change that way.  I have a 55 pilot jet and a 155 main in the drawer if/when I need them...But if I'm rich at idle now - won't a 55 pilot jet make it worse?

Thanks everyone!
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'06 S40 green: sporty muff & 10 degree adapter 155 main jet, 1/2 white spacer, open filter, bar end turn signals
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rokrover
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Re: Just a little black smoke?
Reply #6 - 01/15/06 at 13:11:26
 
There's a transient enrichment valve on the stock carb that's supposed to richen the mixture when the throttle is snapped shut at high rpm.  Not enough to puff smoke though in my opinion.  Yours is an '06 so perhaps the rings aren't fully run in yet so engine vacuum sucks a little oil into the combustion chamber.
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LANCER
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Re: Just a little black smoke?
Reply #7 - 01/15/06 at 14:08:09
 
Do not bet all the eggs in the basket on one puff of smoke.  The best "at home" test is a full tune job as I described above.  Next to that, the absolute test is an exhaust analyzer which will show actual fuel/air mixture.  Be sure you have a new plug in it and go through the procedure...then check the plug as a follow up.
The pilot circuit is the primary fuel deliverer from idle to about 1/4 throttle, and regardless of speed or rpm, if the engine stumbles/backfires/whatever when in that throttle range then the pilot circuit is the likely culprit.                      
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Steve530
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Re: Just a little black smoke?
Reply #8 - 01/15/06 at 15:43:08
 
I've adjusted the idle mixture screw on my 97 and it really doesn't make the difference that lancer described, i.e ide speed doesn't change much.  I can only get about 3 turns, maybe 4, on that screw.  Is that normal?

I still get a pop on shut down and an occasional backfire when I drop the throttle.

BTW, I've added a Dyna muffler, cut the spacer, dipped the carb, and removed the snorkel.  I'm about to order a K&N "drop in".  Any recommendations where to get one?  

Steve
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'97 Black / 1/2 white spacer
155 main jet / 55 pilot jet / Dyna muffler
snorkel removed / K&N drop in / seat raised
Slipstreamer SS30 windshield
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pgolden
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Re: Just a little black smoke?
Reply #9 - 01/16/06 at 14:15:17
 
Performance international has K&N SU 6595 for $35.75 including shipping.
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BS37066
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Re: Just a little black smoke?
Reply #10 - 01/16/06 at 16:06:27
 
My '05 Savage is pretty much the same as yours, Steve.  There is the smallest bit of an improvement at one and half turns out and then it settles down.  I get that small bump in performance approching it from the left or the right, but it is not a big difference at all sitting in the driveway.  

On the road, I can get torque in third at 25 mph.  At 3/4 turns (where the factory had it set) the engine would lug in hard turns at 30 mph.

Oh!  And in the driveway, I can take the throttle to the max and drop it without it backfiring.

'05 Savage,#152. 5 main jet, half spacer and the rest is stock.  Well, I have a windshield and saddlebag supports, but they're Suzuki, too.


Steve530 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
I've adjusted the idle mixture screw on my 97 and it really doesn't make the difference that lancer described, i.e ide speed doesn't change much.  I can only get about 3 turns, maybe 4, on that screw.  Is that normal?

I still get a pop on shut down and an occasional backfire when I drop the throttle.

BTW, I've added a Dyna muffler, cut the spacer, dipped the carb, and removed the snorkel.  I'm about to order a K&N "drop in".  Any recommendations where to get one?  

Steve

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Steve530
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Re: Just a little black smoke?
Reply #11 - 01/16/06 at 16:56:12
 
pgolden wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
Performance international has K&N SU 6595 for $35.75 including shipping.


Thanks.  I called them to see if they had it in stock. I got a recording.  I'll try them Tuesday.

Steve
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'97 Black / 1/2 white spacer
155 main jet / 55 pilot jet / Dyna muffler
snorkel removed / K&N drop in / seat raised
Slipstreamer SS30 windshield
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Steve530
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Re: Just a little black smoke?
Reply #12 - 01/16/06 at 16:58:36
 
BS37066 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
My '05 Savage is pretty much the same as yours, Steve.  There is the smallest bit of an improvement at one and half turns out and then it settles down.  I get that small bump in performance approching it from the left or the right, but it is not a big difference at all sitting in the driveway.  

On the road, I can get torque in third at 25 mph.  At 3/4 turns (where the factory had it set) the engine would lug in hard turns at 30 mph.

Oh!  And in the driveway, I can take the throttle to the max and drop it without it backfiring.

'05 Savage,#152. 5 main jet, half spacer and the rest is stock.  Well, I have a windshield and saddlebag supports, but they're Suzuki, too.




Backfiring is reduced a lot on my bike with the larger jet and spacer mod, but it's not gone.  Guess I'll order a 55 pilot jet and a 155 main jet.
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'97 Black / 1/2 white spacer
155 main jet / 55 pilot jet / Dyna muffler
snorkel removed / K&N drop in / seat raised
Slipstreamer SS30 windshield
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LANCER
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Re: Just a little black smoke?
Reply #13 - 01/17/06 at 06:12:55
 
[ I've adjusted the idle mixture screw on my 97 and it really doesn't make the difference that lancer described, i.e ide speed doesn't change much.  I can only get about 3 turns, maybe 4, on that screw.  Is that normal?

I still get a pop on shut down and an occasional backfire when I drop the throttle.]


When turning the pilot adjusting screw there SHOULD  be a noticeable change.  As you turn it in, the engine should slow down to the point of stalling as you approach the "full in" position.  The same with turning it out, as you approach 3 or more turns out, it should slow again.  

If this is not happening then there is still a problem with clogged passages, or the adjusting screws are damaged, or you have an air leak between carb and engine, or some of the carb gaskets are damaged/worn so they are not sealing properly...there is something that is interfering with the tuning process.  I hate to say it, but you need to take the carb off and go through it  again.

By the way, the pilot adjusting screw is designed for only 3 turns out max.  Go beyond that and a larger pilot jet needs to be installed.  For many Mikuni carbs the "IDEAL" setting for the pilot adj scew is 1.5 turns out, with a range of 1-3.  When it is necessary to turn it out more than 3 turns  for best performance then a larger pilot jet is required.   Put in a larger jet and the adjustment will drop back down to the 1.5 +/- turns.If you have to turn it in to less than 1 turn, then a smaller jet is required.
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Steve530
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Re: Just a little black smoke?
Reply #14 - 01/17/06 at 15:22:39
 
Thanks for the reply, lancer.

The carb to engine intake seems tight. The carb gaskets are in good shape.  I did soak the carb body for 40 minutes in Chem-Dip.

I did not remove the idle mixture screw.  Is it removeable?

I also did not remove the pilot jet. I guess I missed this step.

After looking at the diagram again, I do not remember seeing the needle jet. Is it possible for the motorcycle to run without the needle jet?

Steve
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'97 Black / 1/2 white spacer
155 main jet / 55 pilot jet / Dyna muffler
snorkel removed / K&N drop in / seat raised
Slipstreamer SS30 windshield
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