SuzukiSavage.com - New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution

Curz

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Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution
Reply #30 - 10/16/05 at 09:46:26

Sorry Greg...Having reread your post it would appear you were thinking CFM. My thoughts now turn to ways of pressurizing the air input to raise the volumetric pressure of the air the cylinder gulps. And ,NO I can't afford a custom built 10psi turbo system. Besides I don't know if the intake would take that kind of pressure? But that discussion is a little off the topic of this thread. No more engineer talk from me, my brain is starting to hurt from all the math.

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Savage_Greg

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Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution
Reply #31 - 10/16/05 at 10:09:52

Curz wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:

Sorry Greg...Having reread your post it would appear you were thinking CFM. My thoughts now turn to ways of pressurizing the air input to raise the volumetric pressure of the air the cylinder gulps. And ,NO I can't afford a custom built 10psi turbo system. Besides I don't know if the intake would take that kind of pressure? But that discussion is a little off the topic of this thread. No more engineer talk from me, my brain is starting to hurt from all the math.

I was thinking CFM, but you actually said it. I mentioned "atmospheric" because the whole thing works off that principle anyway. High pressure vs low pressure. What is it, "suck, squeeze, bang, and blow", right?

You're right though....a little math is hard on a biker's head 8)

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Savage_Rob

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Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution
Reply #32 - 10/16/05 at 10:52:45

Heh, really didn't mean to get to all this but it's good. I've been a fan of K&N filters for a long time and I like the drop-in replacement I now use on my Savage. But if I can achieve the same (or better) performance by switching to the K&N pod, I could reclaim some storage/relocation space. If not, I'll probably just remove the snorkel as a subjective experiment in performance. That's where I was going with my questions.

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Savage_Greg

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Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution
Reply #33 - 10/16/05 at 11:17:54

Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:

Heh, really didn't mean to get to all this but it's good. I've been a fan of K&N filters for a long time and I like the drop-in replacement I now use on my Savage. But if I can achieve the same (or better) performance by switching to the K&N pod, I could reclaim some storage/relocation space. If not, I'll probably just remove the snorkel as a subjective experiment in performance. That's where I was going with my questions.

Don't blame yourself. We were just thumpin' around some idle thoughts anyway..... Roll Eyes

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Ed L.

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Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution
Reply #34 - 10/16/05 at 13:47:18

Just had a thought on all this, since an air filter causes some type of restriction in the air flow wouldn't it be possible to measure the vacumn between the air filter and the intake of the carb at different RPMs. Less vacumn means lower restriction, increased vacumn is more restriction from the filter. With the stock air box all you would need to do would be hook up a vacumn gauge at the oil drain tube that comes out of the bottom of the bike. If the gauge is accurate enough the differences between the stock air filter and K+N drop in filter will be evident, you could even check on just how much the airbox door changes the reading. Don't think I have a gauge that is accurate enough, anybody out there with a good set of gauges interested? Grin

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Silver '02, clubman handle bars, Cobra headlight, Sportster muffler, K+N stock air filter, 152.5 main, Superbrace, oil cooler, 1/2 inch aluminium plate forward controls, spark advance, goes like stink

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Savage_Greg

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Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution
Reply #35 - 10/17/05 at 05:34:20

Ed L. wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:

Just had a thought on all this, since an air filter causes some type of restriction in the air flow wouldn't it be possible to measure the vacumn between the air filter and the intake of the carb at different RPMs. Less vacumn means lower restriction, increased vacumn is more restriction from the filter. With the stock air box all you would need to do would be hook up a vacumn gauge at the oil drain tube that comes out of the bottom of the bike. If the gauge is accurate enough the differences between the stock air filter and K+N drop in filter will be evident, you could even check on just how much the airbox door changes the reading. Don't think I have a gauge that is accurate enough, anybody out there with a good set of gauges interested? Grin

I wonder if there is any kind of a reference connection on the carb that would allow checking the pressure on the carb directly. That way all 3 filters could be checked in the same way.

I also imagine, that to check the filter with a stock airbox, that it would be necessary to plug the crankcase breather because of the pressure fluctuations coming from the crankcase. Those would cause pulses on the gage.

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Savage_Rob Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Mechanically Inclined Amateur Posts: 6972 Texas (Dallas area) Gender:	Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution Reply #36 - 10/17/05 at 05:58:35 Speaking of which, what did you use for your crankcase breather, Greg? A smaller K&N?
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Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution
Reply #37 - 10/25/05 at 18:01:40

Well, I removed the snorkel over the weekend and I am completely amazed at the difference. My top end has a lot more power now. I'm guessin' she just couldn't get enough air at high revs. I'm still using my K&N drop-in air filter. Just viewing the snorkel itself (while installed), it doesn't look very restrictive; and I don't think it really is in and of itself. What I noticed is that its placement causes the body of the snorkel to block a sizeable portion of the installed air filter. With the snorkel removed and a K&N (drop-in replacement for the stock filter) I have never felt this bike run like she does now. At 75 MPH on the freeway today she felt like 65 did last week.

Edit: Removed a typo that was buggin' me.

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DavidV Ex Member	Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution Reply #38 - 10/25/05 at 23:37:47 You removed the snorkel? But still have the stock airbox? Do you mean that you removed the side door? I'm confused (and looking for a few extra HP, too). Thanks, DavidV
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Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution
Reply #39 - 10/26/05 at 06:01:12

DavidV wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:

You removed the snorkel? But still have the stock airbox?

Do you mean that you removed the side door? I'm confused (and looking for a few extra HP, too).

Thanks, DavidV

Okay, go back and read the thread from the beginning and look at Greg's post with the exploded view of the airbox. Item #10 is the snorkel, which is what I removed. It would only help if that's the airflow bottleneck and your fuel flow supports the increased airflow.

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DavidV Ex Member	Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution Reply #40 - 10/26/05 at 11:00:33 Okay, got it. Thanks.
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Savage_Rob Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Mechanically Inclined Amateur Posts: 6972 Texas (Dallas area) Gender:	Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution Reply #41 - 10/26/05 at 11:27:44 The worst case would be that it made it too lean for you and you'd have to put it back or rejet. It's easy to take it out and put it back.
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Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution
Reply #42 - 10/28/05 at 08:34:16

Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:

Speaking of which, what did you use for your crankcase breather, Greg? A smaller K&N?

I can't help too much with the part number. I threw away the package. It is just listed with K&N as a breather filter, and I ordered it to fit the stock breather hose...1/2"? Have to order one with the mounting stud, too.

I bent a piece of stainless and mounted it in one of the original tapped holes for the horn...which I moved up to the triple tree. In this position there is still a downhill slope for oil mist to drain back to the engine.

Kinda neat to bend down and listen to the air going in and out at idle Grin

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Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution
Reply #43 - 10/28/05 at 12:04:42

Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:

I can't help too much with the part number. I threw away the package. It is just listed with K&N as a breather filter, and I ordered it to fit the stock breather hose...1/2"? Have to order one with the mounting stud, too.

No problem. That's kinda what I was thinkin' of doin'. However, now that I've yanked the snorkel and she breathes so much easier, I'm having second thoughts about even bothering with it. It's good info to have for the future though. Thanks.

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Re: New Air Filter(sock) surface area solution
Reply #44 - 10/28/05 at 13:09:40

Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:10:

No problem. That's kinda what I was thinkin' of doin'. However, now that I've yanked the snorkel and she breathes so much easier, I'm having second thoughts about even bothering with it. It's good info to have for the future though. Thanks.

I've heard where people wonder about sucking rain water in the carb with a K&N pod filter. At least the filter separates the water from the air.

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