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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Bike lurches hard on every shift /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1712780698 Message started by 04Savage04 on 04/10/24 at 13:24:58 |
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Title: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by 04Savage04 on 04/10/24 at 13:24:58 Hello everyone, just bought this Savage 04 used and having a few growing pains with it. The 1st is the hard surging on every shift. If I accelerate moderately hard on every shift the bike does a funny lurch forward. Its extremely bad and I can't understand what or why its doing it. Anyone have any insight on this? I've owned 30- 40 motorcycle's and never experienced anything like this. Feels like maybe the flywheel is too heavy and the engine isn't slowing down as I shift like a power shift type of thing but I'm not power shifting. I also can't find the trip odometer, is it hidden someplace I can't find? Never owned a bike that didn't have one. :o |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by ThumperPaul on 04/10/24 at 13:42:28 There is no trip odometer. It’s bare bones, basic, old school. I was gunna say you’re power shifting! ;) I don’t know the history of your bike, but unless a prior owner did a whole bunch of other power modifications and upgrades, I doubt they messed with the flywheel. Did this just recently start? Was it okay before you did some other work? I’m trying to back track into what you might have done or how this came about. Can you find neutral easily? On a simple level, my first thought is it sounds like the clutch is engaging hard/heavy. Is the oil fresh and filled correctly? |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by 04Savage04 on 04/10/24 at 15:08:20 I just bought the bike, fresh valvoline motorcycle 10-40, I think the carb was rejetted, seems to shift on the hard side too. Clutch seems to engage on the early side, Clutch free play is adjusted properly and the bike has a ton of power much more than I expected. |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by verslagen1 on 04/10/24 at 15:33:42 Sounds like you're not getting enough travel to loosen the clutch. You could reduce the free play for the time being. But take a look at the clutch arm on the case, behind it are 2 marks, a high and a low compared to the lever. If you take up the slack in the cable or pull up that lever by hand, where does it rest compared to the marks? If you're close to the top mark, you need to replace the throwout rod in the center of the clutch. There are 3 lengths, if you don't want to open the case until you have the replacement, then buy all 3 lengths. And you might need a new gasket. |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by 04Savage04 on 04/10/24 at 18:36:25 I looked those marks but I honestly don't understand what you are trying to explain to me. There is nothing to compare the marks too? If I pull up on the lever I assume i'm taking any free play out of the lever to the clutch rod. What I don't get is the marks compared to the lever? Do you mean the entire width of the lever someplace between the 2 marks? Also the bike starts easily in gear with the clutch disengaged, so I don't believe its dragging at all. I suspect the bike outside for a low time with old oil in the engine and maybe moisture swelled the clutch disks some but it doesn't slip and I ran it very hard. My Intruding was shifting hard but swapping out the synthetic for regular oil took care of that. This thread https://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1370480710/4 sums up exactly what mine is doing. |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by ThumperPaul on 04/11/24 at 05:31:31 That’s a good thread with lots of good discussion to study. Yes, the entire arm should be in between the two wear marks. The 3 lengths of push rods are 44.5, 45.5, and 46.5mm. The 45.5mm (medium length) is standard. If the arm is sitting up towards the high mark, you need a shorter push rod. If the arm is favoring the low mark, you need the longer push rod. I recently switched to the longer 46.5mm push rod. With the change, mine went from being a little on the low mark side to being a little more towards the high mark. And I like the feel and action of my clutch where I have it. |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by ThumperPaul on 04/11/24 at 05:49:45 Here’s another thread from when I went through this in December. Ignore the end where I complained about being able to move around in the garage. If you change the push rod, I would also get one of The Sneeze’s clutch cams - made of hardened steel that’s less likely to break and leave you stranded somewhere. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1701786315 |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by 04Savage04 on 04/11/24 at 08:32:09 I'm really surprised how many issues these bikes have. The cam chain tensioner, clutch, hard shifting, no odometer<really blows my mind on that one. I may move on to something else. At my age 70 I just want to go for a simple ride with worrying about these thing. Thanks for the help. |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by 04Savage04 on 04/11/24 at 11:30:49 I checked the lever position, it is in the very middle. I believe I solved the hard shifting problem, I put the bike in gear with the engine off pulled in the clutch and it wouldn't move right away. Quite a delay till I could move it. That says to me the clutch disks are sticking to the plates, so I started the bike put in gear and slipped the clutch for a few mins. Shifts great now. |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by ThumperPaul on 04/11/24 at 13:07:00 I hear you and feel your frustration. I don’t blame you. I ride a Shadow 750 now for similar reasons and I wanted something more highway stable. The Savage really isn’t terrible. I’m not much of a mechanic, but with some help from the forum, I’ve been able to resolve issues myself (so they are fairly simple bikes to work on). As with many used inexpensive bikes bought used, they are often plagued with accumulated neglect and lack of maintenance. The Versy cam chain tension upgrade/mod at least saves the expense and trouble of having to replace the cam chain itself prematurely (which is what a dealership shop would want to do). Your clutch and gear shift issues aren’t typical, but some people have apparently had similar problems. I’ve owned 3 Savages/S40s and the clutch/shifting has never been an issue. I did the longer clutch push rod because I was already in there doing other stuff and it looked like it might be an issue down the road. I’d at least try to resolve the issue before selling so you don’t get too beat up on sales price. |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by 04Savage04 on 04/11/24 at 14:04:09 I only paid 1200 for it so i'm way ahead. I'm sure I could get 2500 or so. It actually shifts decent now so that alone really makes a huge difference. I only plan on using it a few days a week to go for a short ride or sandwich so i'm gonna guess maybe 500-1000 miles a year. I guess for now I'm going to sit on it and see how it goes till maybe May or June. The engine cases need cleaning up which I'm planning on doing myself. Bike makes a nice project to tinker around with. Gonna pull the clutch cover to clean it and weld a washed onto the cam tensioner. I do vintage tube amp repairs that keeps me very busy but I want a bike around to play with. Thanks for sharing your experience with me. I wonder at 8500 miles how bad the cam chain could be worn? |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by ThumperPaul on 04/11/24 at 14:54:09 I guess I need a better definition of "lurch" if you say it's shifting okay. I personally like feeling some torque when I bump it up a gear and get back into the sweet spot of the torque curve. Yeah, if it runs decent, shifts, has rubber that rolls, stops, and doesn't look like trash, you did okay at $1200. |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by 04Savage04 on 04/11/24 at 16:24:37 The hard shifting and the LURCH forward are 2 different things. The shifting was hard and notchy but is ok now that I slipped the clutch a bit. I believe from sitting so long the clutch plates were expanded from moisture a bit. The lurch is some kind of inertia effect I believe from the weight of the counter balancer and the flywheel. Rev it up hard and shift it lurches badly forward then settles down. Go out on your bike wind it up hard 1-2 2-3 and as you shift and let the clutch back out it jumps forward for a split second. In the upper gears its not as bad I believe because the ratios are higher soaking the inertia from the rotating mass up. It reminds me of a old Triumph 650 I drove 40 years ago. The 96 Intruder I just sold drove beautiful compared to this but unfortunately was too heavy for me to handle anymore. I guess thats whats hurting me with the Savage, the Intruder was so different than this bike. The Savage does handle better in the turns because its so light AND I do like its power, super torquey. This bike has new tires and is in good condition with case corrosion. I'd say its a 7 out of 10 easily. |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by ohiomoto on 04/11/24 at 18:00:21 393D5A687F686E6C393D090 wrote:
The chain isn't the issue. It's the chain guides. They lose their shape. Drag Bike Mike has a thread that covers the problem and solutions. Most of us swap out the tensioner and the problem is solved. Like most other common mods for this bike, it's a "one-and-done" affair. |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by ThumperPaul on 04/12/24 at 05:11:30 Agree that the cam chain is not stretched beyond spec limits at 8,500 miles. Having probed the same question on the forum, some members have reported over 60k miles before the chain stretches out of spec. DBM has done an awesome analysis and work on the rear chain guide. It should be headlined “how to straighten a limp bent banana”. The Versy cam chain tensioner mod is really a 3-fold solution: 1) it keeps the plunger from falling out and torpedoing the engine, 2) it lets the rear banana cam chain guide to continue to banana and do its job, 3) allows you to get the full service life out of the cam chain itself. That said, I don’t think the LuRch is related to the cam chain, guides, and tensioner. When I installed the Versy cam chain tensioner, my plugger was extended out about 18mm (anything over 20mm is getting deathly close to falling out per discussion on the forum). That was at 12,000ish miles. Each bike will be different depending on how it’s ridden - lots of stop and go short trips will stretch the chain faster than highway riding. Starting with something simple for the cause of the lurch, have you checked the motor mounts/bolts? I’d suspect something like that before flywheel and counterbalancer. |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by 04Savage04 on 04/12/24 at 21:13:29 Well I found a very nice 06 ls650 for sale 4500 miles on it but they started to take apart to make a bobber. Chrome engine cases all look like new. very good condition everything is there except the battery box and cover. 800 bucks, seriously thinking about buying it as parts bike or maybe even put it back together. We'll see, gotta think about. |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by Yoshi on 04/13/24 at 10:53:53 Sounds like throttle is not going back closed |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by 04Savage04 on 04/13/24 at 14:31:22 hmm i posted but its gone now???? thats a odd one. Anyway I'm getting a terribly loud whine on decel in every gear but 1st and on every shift as I let out the clutch I get a quick whine. What is this? >:( |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by DragBikeMike on 04/13/24 at 15:04:06 Probably your drive belt. It's a common problem, harmless but annoying. Easy fix. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1561964431 |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by 04Savage04 on 04/13/24 at 18:09:36 Ahh coolness, makes complete sense now. Thank you |
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Title: Re: Bike lurches hard on every shift Post by 04Savage04 on 04/13/24 at 18:10:45 5B4A5B626E606A797860620B0 wrote:
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