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Message started by SwampCreature on 04/01/24 at 05:19:53

Title: Starter Relay Issue
Post by SwampCreature on 04/01/24 at 05:19:53

First Post, please bear with.

2005 LS650 with 5,500 miles. Third owner. The bike had been in routine care of the original selling dealer throughout its life.
I have had it for around a year and a half - some 4,000+ on it at the time.
Starting had been becoming a problem.

Symptoms:
Press Start Switch.
Lights out, 2 audible clicks: decomp & start relay engagements.
No spin, no nothing.

This had been intermittent for about a year. Repeated button presses would eventually catch and get the piston moving and a prompt start followed. Even so, the reluctant start eroded confidence in the bike a bit which contributed to unusually low use thus far.

First up in my imagination was a failing battery. Second, the decompression solenoid. The no-spin lead me to suspect the battery wasn't strong enough to spin the crank and a possible failure of the compression release could be a reason for that.

In hindsight: Duhh. Whether it took 3, 4, or 12 presses of the starter button, it would eventually start. The battery worked. Decomp worked. However, at the time these facts were not as obvious as they later became, so got a new battery, did valves, and cleaned & greased the decompression solenoid - even lubed the cable, checked adjustment, etc. All good exercise, anyway. And it did start with a press or two or three - most of the time for almost a full week. Now I'm wondering if the new battery's getting a charge. More Duhh. Obviously, yes. I would plug the charger in, and the red light always went to green in only moments after the internal diagnostics were done...just as it had with the old battery, come to think of it. Even the new digital tach/volt-meter reading 12.8-13.1 might have been a hint. This obstinate starting issue, as I had repeatedly failed to realize for a year had had no effect on the battery's state of charge. Every other electric starter starting problem that I've experienced tends to drain batteries. That was a very good hint - flew straight over my head. Now I wondered if the charging system was OK. Have to check into that...at some point.

Fortunately, salvation from the quagmire was at hand.

After a likely last fill for the season (Dec 2023), sitting 3-ish weeks, the bike would no longer start for routine over-winter circulation start-ups. Would not start, period. Well, the shop was cold. Maybe it preferred warmer weather. Maybe some kind of cold-shrinkage tightened up the piston just past some sensitive thumper threshold. There were things to think about. It was cold. It could wait. If the carb craps up from sitting, I'll fix it.

As the weather broke, Amazon sent a new $9.50 Start Relay to have standing by in advance of further troubleshooting. Ruminations during the winter break got me to thinking that relay was one thing I hadn't thought about but was about the only thing that would account for this stating issue not collaterally resulting in any significant battery use/drain. So, investigating the relay went to the top of the 2024 checklist. Half the work is clearing space to get diagnostic meter access to the relay, anyway – then what, wait for a part to come in? It was simultaneously unlikely that the relay on a 5,000-mile bike had failed and becoming obvious that something about it may have failed, anyway. It won't take long to find out.

The new relay hacked up on an Amazon search is a dead-on clone for the OEM’S Jideco brand. It fits with zero modification and fits even faster using only the easily accessible upper chassis screw to mount it after slipping in a bit of silicone sheet under the lower mounting wing to compress, grip & dampen vibration. Stock petcock turned to Prime for a minute, then back to run, the bike started promptly - and continues to do so. Done - except for figuring out what happened...

Upon opening the original Start Relay – cutting the cover away – one of the two high-amp lug contacts inside the Starter Relay was so severely corroded it could easily have been confused with arc burning had it not been tinged top and bottom with a thick dark bluish layer of oxidized copper. (Shows better in full-spectrum light than in the desk lamp photo. See the other face in pic2.) The other contact was practically spotless top & bottom. At the lower left of Pic1, the circular spring buffer disk shows what also appears to be a ring of oxidation. How did moisture get in?

OK, gets tricky here for a 1st timer. I think 2 photos are attached. I don't see them on this screen. The 'leak' shows at the center-bottom of the brighter of the two pics. A small o-ring intended to seal the lug was apparently installed improperly and pinched by the washer and nut that were intended to seal it in the first place. Then, somehow, enough water made its way under the seat to the self-draining, sloped top of the relay (as installed) to stand long enough to perk into the inside of the relay.

The odds of this happening seem like one in a million.
*The relay is built to be waterproof.
*It is sheltered in its installed location.
*Its position is canted so it drains (whether by intent or expediency).
With the advantage of hindsight, however, I believe it is fair to say the intermittent starting symptoms only ever pointed to a fault somewhere in this one component. ...teamed up with another fault in the guy doing the diagnostics.

Title: Re: Starter Relay Issue
Post by SwampCreature on 04/01/24 at 05:24:02

other photo of Start Relay

Title: Re: Starter Relay Issue
Post by SwampCreature on 04/01/24 at 05:38:20

Photo of Original and $9.50 Amazon Replacement Start Relays

Title: Re: Starter Relay Issue
Post by verslagen1 on 04/01/24 at 08:58:48

I wouldn't fault yourself on your diagnostic abilities, we don't do this for a living so we're all learning and would do the same thing, 'fix' and learn about each component in the line of the real fault until we stumble across it.

Interesting to note that the part is installed at an angle to promote drainage, it does have a rubber cap, and located deep in the bike. You'd think it would be sheltered for the most part.

And even on the good side the metal surrounding the seal is fully corroded. So if not for a measly 2 cent part installed on a Friday, we'd all be in the same boat.

Title: Re: Starter Relay Issue
Post by Ruttly on 04/01/24 at 10:08:46

Sometimes I use an audible aid when trouble shooting. It’s a backup alarm with a hot & a ground also grounds thru magnet I attached. It’s for long vehicles and working in area where it’s too loud to be using power probe. In his case I would have attached it , pos to the starter and found 0 volts at starter when button is pushed or a blairing back up alarm sounding tell me selenoid is good. Get a little old , get a little deaf you will hear this device.

Title: Re: Starter Relay Issue
Post by DragBikeMike on 04/01/24 at 10:33:45

Creature, great post. I really appreciate the photos. This is very valuable info. The views of all the internal stuff provide a wealth of detail. Thanks for sharing.

Title: Re: Starter Relay Issue
Post by ThumperPaul on 04/06/24 at 11:44:50

Nice disection surgery! Makes me want to carve my dead one open for fun.

I love cheap aftermarket parts that work. Link to the $9.99 Amazon special starter relay I installed. It works. You can but 10 of these for what an OEM starter relay costs. Suzuki/Parzilla have a lot of nerve to charging $100 for such a simple part.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D6PBTBC?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details