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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Drilled Rotors or No?
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Message started by ThumperPaul on 03/26/24 at 13:23:41

Title: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/26/24 at 13:23:41

It is a fair bet that virtually all drilled rotors will crack. Eventually the cracks connect and the discs are done. The process of drilling rotors introduces starting points for fracture. Most manufacturers will attempt to alleviate this somewhat by chamfering the holes to relieve the stress. This only works a little.

Porsche took it a step further and cast the discs with the holes in to have the metal formed around the hole rather than creating the stress risers. It works better but still ends up with the same issue.

The original reason for drilling rotors was to allow gasses (hot air, lol) to escape from organic pads for better braking. With modern compounds there is no outgassing so no need for the holes. A slotted rotor is a much better design. It allows shedding of water, pad waste, etc.. through the slot without causing stress in the rotor and dangerous cracking.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Dave on 03/26/24 at 13:26:44

I drilled the stock rotors a few times and they never suffered any cracking.

Most Savage riders never ride in a way that will get the rotors hot enough that they will ever crack or warp.

Likely the holes on a Savage disc are more for looks than actual performance.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/26/24 at 13:33:34

I hear you, Dave. That's a perty rotor you have there! ;D

I don't think our bikes have enough braking power to crack a rotor. And motorcycles have naturally ventilated brake rotors so heat disappation is good regardless of the type of rotor.

I'm not sure anybody can honestly say that their drilled rotors have better stopping power than smooth rotors on our bike.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by zevenenergie on 03/26/24 at 13:52:56

It also helps to call your right brake pad Trump and your left brake pad Biden, now that they can see each other through the holes there is much more friction.

Replaced in time, especially the left one.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Dave on 03/26/24 at 14:51:20

The rumor I heard is that when pads get hot they outgas......and that gas can create a bit of pressure that pushes the pads away from the rotor.....the amount of braking is therefore reduced somewhat.

Drilling and slotting is supposed to provide a way for that gas to escape. I suppose it could also provide a bit more cooling as air can move around in the holes.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by verslagen1 on 03/26/24 at 16:40:26

has anyone heard their drilled rotor squeal?

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by LANCER on 03/26/24 at 16:44:36

786B7C7D626F696B603F0E0 wrote:

has anyone heard their drilled rotor squeal?

Mine does not squeal.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Dave on 03/26/24 at 17:46:06

The only noisy brake pads I had on a Savage....are the stock ones!

EBC organic pads are much better!

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by LANCER on 03/27/24 at 04:09:42

Forgot to mention that my front brake is not stock, I’ve got the upgraded system.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/27/24 at 19:56:04

Old school organic pads have bad gas. Speaking of bad gas, our French Bulldog is trying to clear the room right now!!

I've said it before, I won't buy EBC brakes again after finding the pads separated from the plates (both pads, not just one). Never seen that before.

I have Niche semi-metallic pads now. Nice initial bite and getting a better progressive feel now after bedding-in a while. We'll see if they eat my smooth rotor in no time.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Ruttly on 03/28/24 at 08:50:57

A nice quality braided S/S brake hose helps firm up the lever. But if you want brakes get Shawn’s big brake kit , it’s a two finger grabber that will not disappoint. All brake rotors should be drilled for cooling , cooling helps minimize the effects out gassing.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/28/24 at 09:30:27

486F6E6E76631A0 wrote:

I guess you can tell I'm not sold on any benefits of a single drilled rotor on our little bikes. I don't ride downhill very often at 100 mph needing to stop suddenly.

But I'll bite... Who is this Shawn dude and where can I find info on his "big brake kit"?

I am considering a steel brained line from HEL for the LS650 for $49 (broken link below - you'll have to reselect Suzuki LS). With semi-metallic pads, a steel braided line, and some quality fliuid - I think I can "stop" there. And of course we have those wonderful pieces of wood (probably recycled cardboard) in the rear drum brake for extra drag!

https://us.helperformance.com/motorcycle/braided-lines/brake-lines/suzuki/ls

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Ruttly on 03/28/24 at 09:50:08

Thats something I never see is a rating on the edge of the lining , like on automotive brakes. Auto brakes have a coefficient rating on them “AA” to I think “HH” is the highest but not sure. First letter is cold coefficient rating and second letter is hot coefficient rating. So you can see what you’re buying. You might find “EF” rating too letters not always the same. A would be a low rating as far as temperature & coefficient rating , so. Helps you pick a suitable brake pad for type of vehicle,type of driving,load , etc. On a motorcycle it’s a crap shoot what your getting !

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Ruttly on 03/28/24 at 09:55:52

Find Shawn in the Market Place on this sight. Many here have it , just ask around. I rarely use my rear brake anymore , absolutely love it ! 8-)

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/28/24 at 10:00:30

785F5E5E46532A0 wrote:

Yep, and the set of $40 EBC pads (made in China) are probably made on the same manufacturing line as the no-name $15 pads. I’m not bashing China here. I’ve gotten many good parts made in China. They actually know bikes pretty well with bikes being a primary mode of transportation over there. Heck, even all KTM smaller displacement motors are made by CFMOTO in China, and CFMOTO makes the entire KTM bike for the Chinese market.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Ruttly on 03/28/24 at 10:41:04

Familiar with Chinese M/C market. Now you have to research any new m/c you might be interested in. Find out where it’s assembled with parts from where. Been tempted but like drugs just say , NO ! I have an interesting stable , American , Japanese , British. The stigma of Japanese bikes is bad enough , not sure I want to hear “What the _ _ _ _ is that” everytime a buddy shows up. The Tracker looks good enough that it fits in. Ol skool does that to ya ! No one would ride with me on those , might get beat up by some real bikers on it too ! A simple no thank you. Think I’m a builder not a buyer , at least till they drop some new BSAs here in the states ! Nor do the guys at the local H/D dealer , listen to them stutter , when I ask them when the Chinese Harleys are due to arrive !

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/28/24 at 11:01:00

I can’t find anything on the marketplace trying to find Shawn’s big brake kit. My challenges with finding info on the forum continues. Not a big deal - more curious than a serious buyer.

To each his own on using Chinese parts. My experience has been good. So many US companies use Chinese manufactured stuff and people naively believe they are buying American made. And then there’s the brainwashed mentality that China made stuff is all junk - it’s pure nationalist racist redneck idiocracy. It’s laughable.

I think those people are the “real bikers” that want to beat you up that you speak of - caveman morons. They like their big, loud, underperforming “made in America” POS.

Whoops, I’m going way off topic here. Belongs in another forum…

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Ruttly on 03/28/24 at 11:06:51

You missed it
Front big brake kit
Ryca Shawn

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Ruttly on 03/28/24 at 11:15:43

Oh I realize China is no joke. They build nice bikes. I just don’t want one. I have been looking at those bikes for years , drop shipped to your door if not close enough to distributor. Not for me , came close to it but was saved by my 250 build. Just not ready to see made in China cast into a m/c engine of mine , no apologies , I’m Ol Skool , it is what it is !

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Ruttly on 03/28/24 at 11:42:52

Lifan builds their own bikes for the past 25-30 years ! They build Hondas for Honda and several other brands as well. I would feel ok with a Lifan , but I can’t bring myself to even drive an hour away to look at them. It would have to stay outside , period ! Racism , that won’t work , my wife of over 30 yrs is half Chinese ! I won’t say never , it would have to be the perfect bike and we all know that’s just not gonna happen.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/28/24 at 12:05:55

Google found it. RycaShawn.

https://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1475013866/0

Looks like you, Dave, and Lancer like it and endorse it.

I can't say I'm impressed from reading about it.

It's a bigger drilled rotor - but it utilizes the same style/size stock pads (did I read that right?). How does a bigger rotor do anything without bigger pads - just unused empty mass spinning around (circumfrential surface mass differences aside) .

A multi-piston caliper has some merit, but seems the package includes some fabricated/rebuilt “used from whatever fits” (no thanks). The package also doesn’t include a steel braided line which is a key component if you want to call it a turnkey package. Same master cylinder. Yeah, you get a new custom bracket to hold the caliper (whoopie).

I'm still stuck on drilled rotor doing nothing - especially by itself and with the availability of better non-gasy organic pads of the 21st century - except maybe it looks cooler if brake rotors really turn you on.

Yep, my next brake upgrade will be a new braided line and quality fluid. That'll have to do... I'm on a beer budget with this bike - improvement is "good enough", and waste is waste... Spend my extra money on my Honda Shadow (that has stock drilled rotor up front, lol).

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/28/24 at 12:27:53

Ruttly, please understand my comment about racism was in no way directed at you!! I apologize if I struck a nerve. It was a bad generalization on my bad about the mentality of many "real bikers" and Anti-China folks. It’s probably just fear that a country with 2 billion hard working people and nuclear weapons will crush the USA one day.

Kinda like the morons that are boycotting Budweiser and switched to Busch beer (that git 'em)!

Lifan, Zongshen, and CFMOTO are 3 manufacturers that are putting out pretty good products. I've owned a Zongshen and a CFMOTO and no real complaints - and replacement parts are cheap if/when something does fail.

I also imported and sold over 70 little 50cc 2-stroke dirt bikes over 2 years. They were cheap. They were easy. They were fun - 2 of our grandsons still ride them going on 2+ years (replacement carbs are like $12 on Amazon and you replace annually - lol. I was getting them for $4). You'll see these bikes on Amazon for like $400 plus $99 shipping. I was importing them for about $235 (including shipping) and selling fully assembled locally for $400. My "value add" was doing the final assembly and selling ready to ride locally. I sold 26 of them in the 3 weeks leading up to Christmas one year - I couldn't build 'em fast enough! Good fun little bikes for the money and kids learning to ride (parents sticking their toe in the water before dropping big bucks on a “real” bike and not knowing if their kid will even like riding…and kids gunna tear it up anyways!).

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/28/24 at 12:38:39

Peace Out! I'm going for a ride! It's absolutely gorgeous here today and tomorrow!! Sunny mid-70s, drier air for Houston, light cool occassional breeze! Peace Out!

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Ruttly on 03/28/24 at 14:43:07

T/P absolutely none taken , IDC ! Was only explaining my view
Truth by told I have a Zhongshan 250 cc 5 speed engine somewhere in my ever growing collection of engines. It is for sale by the way. Keep it hidden from my caveman buddies , lmmfao

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Dave on 03/28/24 at 17:10:41

370B160E1306113302160F630 wrote:

Looks like you, Dave, and Lancer like it and endorse it.

I can't say I'm impressed from reading about it.

It's a bigger drilled rotor - but it utilizes the same style/size stock pads (did I read that right?). How does a bigger rotor do anything without bigger pads - just unused empty mass spinning around (circumfrential surface mass differences aside) .

A multi-piston caliper has some merit, but seems the package includes some fabricated/rebuilt “used from whatever fits” (no thanks). The package also doesn’t include a steel braided line which is a key component if you want to call it a turnkey package. Same master cylinder. Yeah, you get a new custom bracket to hold the caliper (whoopie).

I can understand not wanting to spend $400 on a brake kit for a Savage....especially if you don't ride in a Hooligan manner that requires a lot more brake! Riding in the mountains of TN/NC could turn the Savage front brake disc blue.......that has not happened since I installed the Shawn Big Brake kit. There were times I was braking so hard into a corner I could feel the rear of the bike getting twitchy as the weight was all shifting forward to the front wheel (MM and I don't ride like that anymore).

Shawn made a great kit, and he is a stand up guy. He created something that nobody else was brave/skilled enough to try.

The pads on the Big Brake kit are bigger than the pads on the Savage. The photo shows a comparison of the two pads....the smaller ones on the right are the Savage pads. Also the larger diameter rotor provides more leverage for the pads to do their magic - plus the disc has a lot more swept area that provides an increase in the amount of energy to be dissipated by friction.

The big brake kit really is a huge improvement in performance.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Dave on 03/28/24 at 17:14:52

When Shawn first started building the brake kits they had a 2 piece rotor, and I was lucky enough to get this model. The inner piece is a cut down Savage rotor, the outer piece is from a Suzuki sport bike. The buttons hold them together and allow the outer disc to float a bit and stay centered.

I tried the one piece rotor and it was always noisy for me when cold and I tried lots of different compound pads and a different caliper and I could not make the squeal go away - I never had that problem with my 2 piece rotor.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/28/24 at 17:15:21

Thanks Dave. I definitely misunderstood about the pads. This is a good testament for the kit.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Dave on 03/28/24 at 17:26:17

Paul:

If you want a big improvement in brake performance at a reduced cost - you can make an adapter and install a two piston caliper from a Suzuki SV650. It requires making an adapter from steel and drilling holes and threading them.

The amount of braking power is improved dramatically - however the disc is still a bit small and can get hot if you are using the improved brake power frequently (like riding fast in the mountains) the disc will get really hot. However - for panic stops it works great!

The photo is the SV650 caliper on a GS550 rotor - however I cut the rotor down to the same diameter as the Savage and the setup is the same....I can install a Savage front wheel and disc without any problem.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Ruttly on 03/28/24 at 18:19:41

As I recall Shawn has a background in brake engineering. And it does do a good job. But it’s not for everyone. But a single piston caliper can’t compare to the 4 piston caliper. The larger rotor gives that caliper more leverage. Braided line reduces loss of pressure over a 20 yr old rubber hose. Now it’s a choice to stop or not. In the back of your mind , you know we are right , cause we have all tried everything else=throwing $$ away and then buying the best option. Trying to save you a buck with education. It’s a bolt on and bleed it kit. Money well spent IMO !

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by LANCER on 03/28/24 at 19:20:02

Bottom line is Shawn’s system works.
The price is reasonable and installation is basic, take your time and do it right. I was more than pleased with the result of mine; much better braking and excellent control with the braking force.
I consider it a good safety investment.

…… if you want to, you can stand the bike on its nose, but that’s not something I want to do.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Ruttly on 03/28/24 at 22:20:50

Rotor for the 2 piece is from a Suzuki TL1000 , the pads are a Yamaha go to , same pad from mid 1970s to date , many options. There wasn’t many of the 2 piece rotor kits made.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/29/24 at 06:55:17

Dave, your creativity and fabrication skills blow my mind! This is really slick! Unfortunately, my lack of skills, tools, and equipment put this out of my realm of possibilities. This is really awesome though!

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Ruttly on 03/29/24 at 10:11:06

T/P your realm of possibilities is limitless ! No one set your limits , BUT YOU Run with it ! 8-)

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by DragBikeMike on 03/31/24 at 10:26:12

Hey Dave, have you actually tried that SV caliper on the road? Is that picture from your Geezer Cruiser? I'm curious if you have first-hand knowledge of how the caliper performs (power, lever feel, smoothness, noise etc.)? Seems like a simple solution and I'm thinkin I would like to try one. I searched eBay and I see there are two different SV calipers, one for 02 and earlier, and one for 03 on. What year is yours?

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Dave on 03/31/24 at 12:18:09

Mike:

I did not try it - I bought my big brake kit from Shawn before I could mount it and use it. I mailed it to MMRanch and he tried it. Here is the thread:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1506653047/11#11

Both MMRanch and Badwolf report that they can lock up the front wheel with 2 or 3 fingers. It is not likely a "go to" for new riders - but experienced riders seem to like it!

I am not sure what years of SV650 work - but it looks like this one from a 2005. I just watched eBay for a while and found the cleanest and most affordable one I could find.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/386877815390?epid=2087767223&itmmeta=01HTAWSQT1EJ957C6FE8Y8HV4K&hash=item5a13b6fa5e:g:ioAAAOSwxM5l~g~A&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwPFzi884PNwUqaR67XsK36rQ0%2BKrF3QwS0d6%2FEnkk7UYK%2B%2BLdK8pigQLODRGV68EJbagFUHTx7kb6Sr%2F0Btao26IFz%2FMJkAQbmiu1Dp3AV341%2FRaYjzYUPef%2F1eDj7c0KmuUnut1KVi8mBYPiQekG33OG3cvO%2FizBzCGlrjUcJvEex5hBA0RXoUGv3Rcm3exhYA3R%2F3nV6OFT2s2zen0d8XZOKRK8inb%2FNZMBSzrmUPt67Ew8P8qp6kAoUyTBQd4Nw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5z95tzSYw

I have a care package I am sending you. I will also throw in a tracing of the bracket I made.

Here is a photo of the LS650 pad on the left and the SV650 pad on the right.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by DragBikeMike on 04/01/24 at 10:28:07

Mahalo Dave, I ordered a set off eBay. I figured having the extra set of pistons would be beneficial. I'm lookin forward to the care package. When I get around to installing the new caliper, I will do a report to share my experience. Seems to me like the SV caliper is a cheap and simple fix for a rather dangerous shortcoming.

I am curious to see how it works with the smaller diameter LS rotor. I guess I should have taken a look at the calipers on my AN650 which is sitting about 4 feet away from my HotRod. The AN caliper might have been a better choice (then I would have two rides that use the same brake pads). Oh well, hindsight is always 20/20. I should check the parts fiches, maybe the AN & SV use the same pads.

;)

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Dave on 04/01/24 at 15:41:14

12141B67656266560 wrote:

I am curious to see how it works with the smaller diameter LS rotor.

;)

MMRanch used it with the Savage caliper......he said he could lock up the front wheel easily. He did not comment on it being overly sensitive.

I will see if I can get my old office to scan the pattern so I can post it on the forum. We don't have a scanner at home.

Title: Re: Drilled Rotors or No?
Post by Dave on 04/02/24 at 11:38:15

Here is a tracing of the adapter I made. It is a tracing made using a pencil - so you will cut just inside the lines to get it the same size I had. The tracing of the holes will give you a good idea where they are located. I am not certifiably accurate at measuring - so I tend to drill one hole (and tap if necessary), then bolt the bracket on using one hole and use a center finder or proper sized drill to locate the center of the other hole!

I used 1/4" steel plate to build mine, and the spacing appears to be very close. You can adjust with washers as needed.

To make an adapter copy the image and adjust the sizing so the scale is accurate in inches. Then stick the pattern onto your metal using spray adhesive, and cut/grind/sand so the line disappears!