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Message started by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/17/24 at 18:31:39

Title: Browsers and AI PCs
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/17/24 at 18:31:39

There has been a functional shift in browsers that are Chromium based at their lowest levels. Google has decided to monitize their open source platforms with "upgrades" some of which are not voluntary. Google intends to rid the world of add-blockers or to run off the people who belive in being add free.

If you use MS products to browse with, you got no choice in this matter, MickeySoft will put you right to the current MS standards or shut you down or run you off completely in the Win11-Win12 changeover.

Those who use open source (Linux Mint 12.5 and up) will be affected too.

Chrome Browser and Firefox are no longer "user safe". I have been "force rolled" over to Brave browser in my search for something that is inherently free but still keeps my web pages free of having banner ads all over the place.

Proof of the pudding is to crank up YouTube and TO NOT GET INSTA-BANNED BY GOOGLE FOR USING ADBLOCKERS !!!

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Fast 650 on 01/17/24 at 20:59:49

I use an ad blocking hosts file along with adblock and almost never see an ad. If an ad manages to sneak through I just add the domain to the hosts file and redirect it to 0.0.0.0 and that stops any ads from that domain. For the sites that insert ads in popup windows, right click the window and select "block element" in adblock to get rid of it.

Or if you are more of a tech nerd, set up another pc and run it as a proxy server. The ads will go the the proxy server and are stopped right there. Any of your devices that use that proxy to connect to the web will not see the ads then.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by zipidachimp on 01/18/24 at 23:45:54

I've been using linux Mint for 20 years. 2 days ago I upgraded to the latest version without having to download, burn and install. Really cool! Firefox may not be the best, but it's the least worst.
The one constant in all versions is 'screen freeze' which means a hard reboot. My tower is 10 years old, likely need a new one!
Cheers! 8-)
ps: I switched to linux when Gates started charging $100 for Windows. Call me cheap!

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Fast 650 on 01/20/24 at 12:46:10

I wouldn't say that you are cheap. More like smart. :)
I started messing with alternative operating systems back in the Windows 3.1 days because I was tired of the crashes. OS/2 had promise but was killed because of Win95. I dabbled with various Linux flavors then but Linux hadn't developed enough at that time. By around 2000 it was ready for primetime and I went Linux only on all of my pc's then.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by zipidachimp on 01/20/24 at 14:39:25

Fast: had mint 21.2 installed from dvd for only 2 weeks, got a notice offering 21.3 directly from mint upgrade, went smooth as butter, works much better. How cool was that? Too cool!
Cheers! 8-)

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by bobert_FSO on 01/20/24 at 14:59:45

I stick with Firefox because after a bunch of years, I'm just used to it and comfortable with it. It's about the only popular open source browser left. I try to stay away from all the Google/Chrome/Chromium stuff I can, because I just don't like the company. I use Firefox on both linux and Windows computers.

RE: Linux Mint. I like it a lot. Use it myself and on family computers that I "get" to support. I think it's Cinnamon desktop has the best easy, graphical integration of app/os upgrading, setup and management. It is not the coolest looking interface, but it works very well. I also like Pop OS and MX Linux.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Fast 650 on 01/20/24 at 16:56:00

zipidachimp, did you ever try a distro called LibraNet? That was a Debian based distro in the early 2000's that was nice. That one was my favorite while it lasted. It was a father/son team making that one and when the father developed serious health issues the son was unable to keep up development and it went the way of the dodo.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Eegore on 01/20/24 at 19:58:42

At a minimum I think, given the cost of developing browsers that are consistently reliable, they could offer an internet ad-blocker for a price.

Yes that's right, a subscription fee. If I choose to use a companies product and they sell ads to make money, I should pay them to offer me an ad-free experience. Instead of trying to circumvent how they provide their service to me.

This is why it's good to share alternative browser options. So we aren't fighting legitimate business models telling them how they should run their companies, and instead use the Capitalist method of choosing a competitor.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/20/24 at 23:00:47

I think the rub right now is that Google Chromium underlays most browsers, and now Google really wants to sell pop up ads on your hardware or make you pay Google a premium (YouTube Premium to be exact) to not have a bunch of stuff all over on your screens.

FireFox was good for years and years until just recently when Google showed their arse all over the place and we saw Firefox going through "correction cycle" after "correction cycle" " to fix Google's BS tactics.

Thus the use of Brave Browser. It doesn't depend on anything from Google. so it is "add resistant" by its underlying nature.

Brave has a different look and feel to it. You will have to rebuild your tool marks from scratch in a lot of cases ..... Firefox may catch a clue to the wise or somebody might swing the regulatory stick at Google's knees and wake them up a bit.

==================================================

Where does it stop? EU Politicians hitting Google in the knees with the regulatory stick I suspect.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by zipidachimp on 01/20/24 at 23:13:25

Fast: I'm really not a geek or a nerd. A PC to me is the same as a hammer, the right tool for the job, plus I really am cheap, and not a team player.
At work, everyone was using Lotus 123, I was using Quattro Pro, even for word processing (remember that?) !
Anyway, I had linuxes from Ottawa, South Carolina and Ireland(mint). Finally settled on Mint Mate because it did what I needed. It's still just a hammer !
Cheers! 8-)
ps: +1 for firefox ! (so far) !
pps: when PCs became trendy at work, I did everything on a spreadsheet, not knowing any better. Much later, I discovered databases, and could have saved myself a ton of work and some embarassment. Born in the wrong decade!

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Eegore on 01/21/24 at 05:20:35

Where exactly are all these ads popping up that are so distracting?

I see banner ads here and there, and YouTube ads when not signed in, but that's pretty much it.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/21/24 at 05:43:23

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Fast 650 on 01/21/24 at 10:00:20

736079606D686A61606479090 wrote:

At work, everyone was using Lotus 123, I was using Quattro Pro, even for word processing (remember that?) !

Oh yes. remember it well. :) I was using that back when it was still called Perfect Office before Win95 came out and MS sabotaged them by updating the API and not telling Wordperfect that the old API was no longer compatible. Corel took over then but MS Office had such a jump on them by then that they never recovered.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Eegore on 01/21/24 at 23:33:27

When do you have the google disease with your browser?

Light up your current browser and go to a You Tube function or site. If you got the malady, Google instantly locks your YouTube up and asks you to upgrade to YoutTube Plus.

Yes, I know it sounds like a scheme of some sort playing out ..... but it is for real.

Sounds like you are experiencing the "Ad Blockers are not allowed on YouTube" notice that's been around for a while.

To be clear, you are unable to watch YouTube because you are using ad-blockers? Or are you using no ad-blockers and still being restricted from YouTube because of a different reason?

I have never experienced the inability to use YouTube even when not signed in, which is pretty much all the time. To test this I logged in 6 laptops that have never had a single user ever logged in, uninstalled then updated Google Chrome, then used YouTube, and 7 websites with various YouTube links.

All of them worked.

I then installed random adblockers on each. I can still watch YouTube without being signed in while using Ublock Origin, Youtube enhanced, and Ghosty. While Adblock/Plus and AdGuard did not work.

If your situation is one where third party ad-blockers are prohibiting you from using Google's Chrome browser to view Google's YouTube services, this seems normal to me. For that matter being blocked while using any known browser plus ad-blockers, when using Google's YouTube services, seems normal as well.

The entire revenue model is based off of ads. That's how many humans make money on Google's YouTube service. This sounds to me like someone finding it inappropriate that they can't watch free broadcast NBC because they noticed that you have found a way to remove commercials and only receive programming to your TV set. This is essentially removing their primary revenue model for that service, why would they be ok with that?

Because you should be able to do whatever you want with your TV?

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/22/24 at 05:30:41

My computer, my software choices ......

I chose Linux Mint and the free and open software world ------ and for years it ran that way.

Along comes Google and basically assigns me all the rights of a convicted felon, with me judged guilty and assigned to Botany Bay.

To clarify ---- I removed all adblockers a whole long time ago and still Google instantly locks up my YouTube up as if I had active adblockers present ......

This is Google "misbehaving" in my opinion.

Google then physically takes over my Firefox browser installation and adds in all sorts of their own advertising ad bars, something I object to quite a bit.

====================================================

:P

In any case, if you want your computer back under your control, you can give Brave browser a try. It will be a whole generation more primitive and "simpler", but it will work without turning on you like Google will.

Credit to Firefox, they tried to fix Google several times of late ..... but Google refuses to stay fixed.

Firefox isn't running the show any more, Google is .......

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by jcstokes on 01/22/24 at 10:25:02

Buggered if I know, I've got a thirteen year old HP with an INTEL chip. I switchted to Linux in 2019 and it still seems to work ok. I installed ADBLOCK Plus at least three years ago, and for the most part it's working well. I've just wathched the You Tube of the Tesla robot and didn't see any ads. Windows seven is still somewhere in the computer.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Eegore on 01/22/24 at 15:16:26

To clarify ---- I removed all adblockers a whole long time ago and still Google instantly locks up my YouTube up as if I had active adblockers present ......

This is Google "misbehaving" in my opinion.

As for Firefox settings changing when choosing to go to YouTube I can see where this may be an unintended consequence. The least confusing choice would be for Google to only allow access to their YouTube service through their Chrome browser. Then people would know exactly how to use Google's product.

"Google then physically takes over my Firefox browser installation and adds in all sorts of their own advertising ad bars, something I object to quite a bit."

Do you believe Google is doing this without Firefox's permission? That's an issue addressable in court, but I imagine Firefox is aware. So when we choose to use Firefox's browser that they own and they choose to let Google alter their product, we as users have to deal with that. Again a result of people constantly trying to circumvent YouTube's primary source of revenue.

I had 6 laptops clean installed with Linux Mint 21.3 and Firefox. If I go to YouTube, what settings can I expect Google to alter?

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 01/22/24 at 19:12:48

Some raw truth here ----- I don't really know "who shot john first" with my Firefox browser issues.

For six months at a lick Firefox would clean up and tame the YouTube errant blocking issues, but they would sneak back after a standard Firefox or even a standard YouTube upgrade.

Some more raw truth ------ I don't care any more.

Using Brave browser I can go to all my sites and do all my various stuff, relatively simply and quickly and reliably. As such, I quickly stopped being a Firefox user. Previously I had dumped Chromium based stuff for similar issues and had changed over to Firefox, so right now I use Brave browser exclusively.

That is as good as it has to be for me to be an ongoing happy camper.

Lastly, I don't really care about Google/YouTube's "need to make a buck on open source" motivations.

In the world of Open Source, what they are doing simply sux.

If we were all sitting in MickeySoft world, it would be pretty much business as normal, but I don't use MS world softwares for this exact reason.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Eegore on 01/23/24 at 05:41:37

Using Open Source software is fine, but once you choose to use an owned service like YouTube, they get to set some rules. Sometimes those rules are to lock the service, especially if they can't tell if that Open Source is blocking their primary revenue stream thus making that viewer a cost with no benefit.

I think any changes to a browser should be temporary or only while using Google's YouTube service. Permanent changes seem excessive, but obviously are easier.

Bottom line is this happens because people want the benefits of using YouTube but don't want to have the ads, which make the service possible. Open Source will get caught in that crossfire.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 02/01/24 at 12:01:05

How trustworthy all this stuff is, I really am not sure.

However, each new use of Brave browser now reports metrics like these.

42,074
Trackers & ads blocked

872.4MB
Bandwidth saved

36minutes
Time saved

Brave is quite serious about blocking e-trash and various sorts of trouble ........ I can say Brave is very successful at stopping most all of the casual pop up web trash.

I was amazed at the time savings being reported, until I actually used Firefox again and I had to wait for all the ad bars and ad crap to all load up again and again and again. Now I can see where these sorts of time saving could come from.

Go here and check it out.

https://brave.com/

Fair Warning: Brave is differently constructed with a different software basis than Firefox or Chrome so if you are expecting a Chrome level of polish to it, you will be disappointed at first.

It is getting better on the polish level, but it moves slowly ........

Now, if Eegore wanted to go fact check something, these new "crap blocking" metrics being reported by Brave browser would be a good pick to reality check.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/11/24 at 00:02:16

Brave Browser is taking market share from Chrome and Firefox because these old primary bowsers are abandoning their original open source user base.

Chrome has become very data grabby and fully commercial, Firefox is becoming abandoned by its open source user base as it slowly gets sucked into Chrome's orbit.

Google is Firefox's major monetary and technological contributor now, and it shows. Firefox uses Chromium as the basis for its browser now ....... and it shows.

Brave Browser is slowly becoming more polished and is slowly picking up some more advanced features.

Brave is mainly concerned with actively combating web trash and ads, this is Brave's announced purpose and it does a right good job of it.

Brave does not use Chrome or Google support items --- it uses open source data engines.

If you can stomach Chrome and Firefox limiting your use of YouTube you can stick with them. If you don't want Chrome and Firefox cutting you off from access to your stuff arbitrarily, you can consider using Brave.

:) Me, I prefer to have my cake and eat it too.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by zevenenergie on 03/13/24 at 06:41:13

I installed Brave yesterday, Now I can watch YouTube without commercials :)

Tanks Oldfeller--FSO much appreciated.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by zipidachimp on 03/16/24 at 13:15:35

Well, that was different ! Installed Brave, watched 26 minutes of Triumph 400 vid on youtube, not 1 ad !!!!!
Repeat, not 1 advertisement.. Howinell is that done????

Cheers! 8-)
ps: Brave picks up all my current bookmarks too! Too friggin' cool!

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/18/24 at 04:58:28

I keep telling you guys that Chromium and Google are behind much of the web's illnesses now-a-days ..... and because Brave doesn't use Chromium or Google products and Brave actively fights against ads, adbars and pay-me activities the Brave Browser now defines what an open source browser should be.

Brave is actually quite a bit faster than the other stuff, mainly because it isn't cranking up a half dozen adbars and other advertisement stuff (and constantly maintaining the same in the background) all the time.

I was amazed at exactly how much processor and internet time Google used on my old PC to chase after its own advertising displays and agenda. Part of this was due to my old hardware being old and slow, but a proportional chunk of processing time would be used on my fastest machine.

So, I went and I looked to find this effect to see if I could quantify it between my newest and oldest machines ......

Humorously, my fastest machine is actually SLOWER to react than my old 15 year old Core Duo machine because the new Windows 11 operating system sucks just that badly compared to Linux Mint 21.3 that I use on my old machine ...... plus my newest machine is also bogged down with lots of preinstalled Microsoft and Google crap-ware that was OEM pre-installed at the factory.

;D

What is Brave?

Brave Search is a search engine developed by Brave and released in Beta form in March 2021, following the acquisition of Tailcat, a privacy-focused search engine from Cliqz. Since October 2021, Brave Search is the default search engine for Brave browser users in the United States, Canada, and Great Britain.

Brave owns their own search engine and their own browser --- so that explains how Brave can avoid the ad-ware trash and bloatware that Google forces on everybody else.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/25/24 at 00:46:05

Once again, what is Brave Browser and how is it different from Chrome and Firefox.

https://zapier.com/blog/brave-browser-review/

As a freelance writer, I research a lot of topics and visit a ton of tech-related sites. So I'm always amused when I see ads for those same topics after I'm done for the day—in my social media feeds, on search engines, and basically everywhere else digital I go. That's one reason I switched to the Brave browser: I was a dedicated Chrome user for years but got tired of my work following me around. I made the switch last year and haven't looked back.

Not only is Brave privacy-focused, reducing the number of trackers that follow you around the web, but it's also faster than other options, offers you customizable privacy controls, and even has a free video conference app built into it.

If you're considering using Brave, here's my review—along with some tips to get the most out of it from the very beginning.

What is Brave browser?

145,122 Trackers & ads blocked

2.74GB Bandwidth saved

2 hours Time saved

The Brave internet browser blocks ads and other online trackers by default, while other browsers don't. I noticed a difference immediately when I started using Brave: after a day or so, I could see I wasn't being "followed" online anymore.

Blocking ads and trackers isn't just about privacy, though—it also speeds up your browsing experience by reducing site load times. Most ads and third-party trackers are scripts that run in the background of websites, slowing things down. Chrome, for example, collects your browsing information, so Google and its advertising partners can send you targeted ads.

Brave downloads only the essential elements for websites, so it loads way faster than other browsers like Chrome—especially if you tend to have a lot of tabs open. I don't usually have tab overload, but my six-year-old computer appreciates getting a break with the 15ish I tend to have open while working.

(P.S. Take a look at Brave's claims for reduced memory usage, increased speed, and increased battery life when using it compared to Chrome.)

Going back a few years and especially going to some Germanic European sites all of which were based on other languages you may see some of them still say that Brave uses a Google software basis just like Firefox used. This is not true for English versions going back to when Brave switched to their own proprietary Cliqz based Tailcat Search engine in which started heavy development in March 2021 and which left Beta in October 2021.

Brave development has not stopped since then, with Brave getting better and more feature complete with very few pauses or backtracks due to software issues.

Brave Search is a search engine developed by Brave and released in Beta form in March 2021, following the acquisition of Tailcat, a privacy-focused search engine from Cliqz. Since October 2021, Brave Search is the default search engine for Brave browser users in the United States, Canada, and Great Britain.

Title: Re: Browsers
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/26/24 at 23:08:59

There is some take over history involved here, so you can read some about the history between Brave's precursors and Firefox here.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/03/brave-is-launching-its-own-search-engine-with-the-help-of-ex-cliqz-devs-and-tech/

Yes, you can see there is a reason some of the old sites used to say Brave came from the minds of some of the best of the original Firefox devs --- because it actually did come from those minds like 3-4 years ago.

I also get a better feel for why Firefox stopped being Firefox (all the good devs with the best open source ideas left to go form Brave) and now Google has sort of taken Firefox over technologically because the main open source devs that built Firefox either quit or got abruptly quittted by Firefox's current management.

So, Firefox got forked by their own departing devs, in other words .....

:(

Title: Re: Browsers and AI PCs
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/28/24 at 14:17:11

I have added AI PCs to this thread as this is a non-defined item at this time. Much has been said about it lately and MS is beginning to use it as a selling point with no clear reason for it nor even a clear definition of the term at this time.

AI gets discussed as an up and coming thing, but pundits are saying "wait on buying anything" as it is "a pig in a poke" right now.

AI requires a subject or a need that somebody likes well enough to actively dedicate some serious web based processing to do the item.

This web based processing uses a NPU processor on your computer processor to catch the flow of data that the off site processing provides. It will also need a fast connection to work properly.

This activity is measured as a minimum of 40 TOPS of NPU processing power, an amount of power that MS Copilot will require to do its thing. This is "trillions of operations per second" AI speeds.

What is proposed is that the mainframe sends you a formatted "solution" for your request over the wires and that it also provides a set of decoder softwares already loaded in your fastest processor based drive so your PC can unpack the flow quickly enough for it to be usable.

So far none of it is real, nor is it even strongly defined. Nor is a concrete benefit fully known at this time.

Early adapters are a very few very advanced graphics programs and not much else at this point in time.

Pundits think that Joe and Rita Sixpack may never see a concrete reason to toss out the fresh coins necessary to buy this extra special functionality.

If a few AAA Games adopts it in some really meaningful manner this will of course change up fairly quickly.

Think of it like a math co-processor ---- another tech that never saw much use in the real world.

Both Intel and AMD are putting this resource use ability inside their planned mid to upper level chipsets for next year MS is also putting stuff inside Windows 12 to supposedly utilize this super hardware.

Nobody in Linux land has any matching needs at this time, but that is expected to change as the months and years roll by.

Linux support for AI PC is slowly coming, key word slowly as their is no need for it at all at this point in time.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-asks-do-you-need-ryzen-ai-support-in-linux

Title: Re: Browsers and AI PCs
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 03/28/24 at 15:00:06

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/intel-40-tops-is-the-new-baseline-for-an-npu

WHAT DOES 40 TOPS ACTUALLY MEAN ????? (40 Trillion Operations per second)

Intel and Microsoft also say that for a computer to be considered a legit AI PC, it has to have the NPU described above and Microsoft Copilot and a Copilot key on the keyboard. The NPU thing makes sense since some applications will run faster with dedicated hardware, but saying a PC requires Copilot and a key on the keyboard is gilding the lily. Microsoft wants everyone to use Copilot, but nobody needs a key on the keyboard as much as they need an NPU, so this seems like a bit of a reach.

Regardless, AI PCs won't take shape until the next-gen arrives later this year, as neither AMD nor Intel's CPUs currently provide 40 TOPS of NPU performance. As Tom's notes, AMD is at 39 TOPS, while Intel is at 34. Plus, AMD's Ryzen 7000-series CPUs don't even include NPUs, just like Intel's desktop chips exclude them, but that will change when next-gen processors launch later this year. We're also curious to hear what AMD's number is for an AI PC and have reached out for its comment.

It ain't real right now as they cannot actually DO IT with Win 10 or Win 11 running on current processors .......

Title: Re: Browsers and AI PCs
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 04/02/24 at 03:01:30

https://news.itsfoss.com/microsoft-ubuntu/

As Microsoft makes the first moves to force everybody to buy a new computer so they can have Win 12 and meet MS's AI PC specs, the folks at MS have finally painted themselves into such a tight corner that only Linux can get them them out of the mess they have made of their upgrade path.

(yes, I know this is all likely seen as an April Fools joke right now, but it makes some longer term sense knowing that MS has just put a MS tweeked version of Ubuntu into its proprietary MS repositories .....)

But, what just happened now? [ch128562]

Microsoft Tells You To go Use Ubuntu
Now, this sounds cryptic, but doesn't it also make sense? No, not really, especially when you realize MS's tweeked Ubuntu version that they recommend uses all their MS services and has lots of crap ware in it built by (and in service to) MS itself.

Now why would you want to do this to yourself ???

Microsoft does it to promote Ubuntu WSL, and they also know that users ineligible for the Windows 10 to Windows 11 upgrade will likely keep using an insecure MS system on top of Windows 10 resulting in some bad press for MS.

So, it is only fair for Microsoft to inform their users to try Ubuntu if they cannot upgrade to Windows 11 by the end of next year.

I mean, it is an expensive business to maintain/secure Windows 10 systems for free, right? And, not everyone will opt for the paid extended security update plan that MS is getting ready to announce.

See the screenshot above where it says my PC does not meet minimum requirements for Windows 11?

Microsoft decided to add a "Try Ubuntu" button on the same screen, which takes you to Ubuntu's installation guide and the "Switching from Windows" page.

With a move like this, Microsoft gets to show that it isn't anticompetitive, and also gets away from any future issues where a customer complains about Windows 10 not being maintained even with plenty of users using it.

:o ::) :P

Now please note this also makes up a MS approved solution to the up and coming set of Win 10 to Win 11 upgrade issues but it also plays forward to the "whole PC replacement" next generation mess that will happen with the next Win 11 to Win 12 "required hardware upgrade".

Sad thing is that the AI PC "benefit" MS is pushing really does not justify spending all the coins they are trying to charge for for this required "very leveraged" AI PC upgrade.

So, MS is delineating a MS approved off ramp for the MS upgrade gravy train that all us retired PC users should take.

However, you really should just go ahead and pick the flavor of Linux that you like and go ahead and install it on your C: hard drive as your default OS instead of downloading and putting a whole world of MS shill-ware on your machine.

Mucking around with a MS tweeked version of Ubuntu sounds like agreeing to continue getting robbed by MS instead of getting a real "free" Linux OS system ......

Plus, I will bet sight unseen that the EVENTUAL real Linux version of "AI PC" will be much better than the slimy pig wallow MS is making out of their MS "AI PC".

Title: Re: Browsers and AI PCs
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 04/04/24 at 05:04:48

AMD and Intel have dropped their spring 2024 processors and they have all been tested. So, here is a ranking of processors as of this date.

Note Please that a $369 Ryzen 7 chipset is fastest gaming chipset of all (at $300 cheaper than a non-competitive Intel 24 core processor)

click on the image then open it in a new tab so you can see the whole thing

http://https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/X7m4xTnr8p4E2qf8xx5Y3V-970-80.png

Title: Re: Browsers and AI PCs
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 04/05/24 at 06:48:40

Google intends to charge $$$ for AI PC services.

So, go mash that CoPilot key on your new keyboard and then say some sort of verbal gibberish as your data request and find out after the fact that Google has charged you a hundred dollars of processing time to try to figure out what the heck it was that you wanted .......

::)

Title: Re: Browsers and AI PCs
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 04/06/24 at 14:07:12

Intel has started losing money this year in a rather large, clear fashion. If it wasn't for the latest Biden Bucks latest infusions Intel would really be a completely crippled wounded duck.

(but it is not a duck, it is a monstrously large reptile named Chipzilla)

Companies that are betting on Intel Foundry Services for their future success are simply deluded right now --- because Intel now lacks the funds to rebuild itself in any large meaningful RAPID fashion.

Intel is failing to build new processors that are competitive with AMD's new processors. Intel is failing to take market share back away from Apple AMD and the various ARM boys.

Intel products are starting to suck more and more as the phone boys all roll into motion swinging new ARM chip sets that can pull off full low end PC functionality, competing especially well when using the AI PC stuff (which is being focused on more in ARM phone type chipsets) is being considered as a moderate to mid level performance booster.

Remember, Intel and all the rest are getting significantly stronger compared to their historical past. The rub is that Intel is just not getting better as fast as the rest are getting better and as such it falls further and further behind the pack.

Intel is still strongly linked to MS Windows and the historical Wintel conglomeration is faltering as Microsoft hits "excess complexity issues" of their very own.

It is bad when MS chooses to use Linux internally for all their troops. It is bad country wide when China and Germany dump MS for Linux so very very publicly and officially. It is bad when MS puts Linux in their company upgrade slides as being the upgrade path for MS old Windows 10 versions .....

RISC is still coming on very strong in the commodity electronic sub-processor chipset markets.

Raspberry Pi is struggling to find some upgraded Broadcomm processors to use as Broadcomm no longer makes a line of stronger ARM processors as they did in years past.

Broadcomm has been bought out and the new owner/management does not support hobbyists like they did in years past. Eric Upton is out in the cold, so to speak.

Raspberry Pi is now looking at various pathways that involve other sources ...... including building their own processors of their own design.

Title: Re: Browsers and AI PCs
Post by Eegore on 04/12/24 at 06:14:29

So, go mash that CoPilot key on your new keyboard and then say some sort of verbal gibberish as your data request and find out after the fact that Google has charged you a hundred dollars of processing time to try to figure out what the heck it was that you wanted .......

I think it is much more likely Google will clearly and repeatedly inform people, most likely by means of a Premium Account, instead of facing the tons of lawsuits for charging "after the fact", a blatant and easily provable violation of law. If people don't read their ToS, and they choose to be charged without looking, that's on them.

I think they should charge for AI services. When someone uses an AI generative search through Google they are drawing power and usage from literally one of the most powerful chips ever created. Maybe 12% of AI proceeds go towards future innovation, these things cost a ton to keep operating. Spreading that cost to non-AI users is like charging property taxes on humans without homes.

I want to use a chip that literally uses the entirety of documented humanity, in seconds, that filters out all the p edo ph elia, sexual assaults, FB live animal torture etc. for me, yeah I will pay for it, and it will be very unlikely that I won't be made aware of this before it happens.

Title: Re: Browsers and AI PCs
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 04/12/24 at 14:40:11

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/97493/amd-ryzen-9-9950x-cpu-tested-zen-5-chip-is-46-faster-in-cinebench-r24-than-7950x/index.html

AMD processors just got roughly a 26-46% improvement in processor throughput with the advent of Zen 5 high performance chiplets and (more specifically) the new Zen 5c power efficient chiplets. Zen 5 is a 4nm product with improved fabric and throughputs but the star of this new show is a mixed lithography 3nm and 4nm Zen 5c chiplet that has better throughput than the old Zen 3 and 4 main cores used to have.

This was done for the larger many cored mainframe style processors, but as in all things AMD the bigger AMD improvements get played across the board when they show up anywhere.

So most new AMD processors will carry a whole bunch of Zen 5c processors to keep the efficiency numbers as high as possible, but they also have a smaller crew of very high performance Zen 5 normal big chiplets will allow raw performance levels that means Intel can't even sniff the ground behind the new AMD products.

;)

Remember, Zen 4 was where Intel lost their competitive position, now we have the new Zen 5 and Zen 6 stuff coming in that moves the goal posts roughly ~ 46% ~ further down the field in top end performance .......

Yes, this moves AMD that much further away from Intel's historically lower processing levels.

So. Please don't run out and buy any of Intel's current stuff, instead buy you some AMD Zen 5 and Zen 6 based products if you want to get you some state of the art performance .......

==================================================

If you want the old traditional "Intel Inside" levels of performance, you can buy a much much cheaper level of AMD Zen 3 or Zen 4 processor from two plus years ago. AMD had built up a bunch of these processors that are still "sitting in inventory as available" and they are currently for sale right now for much much less money than the current stuff.

Us old retired folks should mebbe consider this as a pathway to the future as we can buy 2 year old "as good as Intel's current best" AMD stuff for dirt cheap right now that will handle our needs for as long as we will likely be around to use it.

This assumes you are not going to chase the as yet undefined MS and Intel BS into "the AI PC world" that is currently churning up such huge fog banks of icky stinky brown vapor all over at the moment ......

Title: Re: Browsers and AI PCs
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 04/16/24 at 09:50:05

https://liliputing.com/amd-launches-ryzen-pro-8040-mobile-and-ryzen-pro-8000-desktop-chips-with-ryzen-ai/

AMD is bringing its Ryzen PRO chips for laptop and desktop computers into the AI age. The company’s new Ryzen PRO 8040 Series processors are basically business-class versions of the Ryzen 8040 Mobile chips that launched last year, meaning they have the same Zen 4 CPU cores, RDNA 3 integrated graphics, and Ryzen AI NPUs. But they now get AMD’s business-class security and management features.

Meanwhile the new Ryzen PRO 8000 Series desktop chips are the first desktop processors to feature neural processing units for hardware-accelerated AI.

So what are you actually supposed to use those NPUs for? AMD highlights a couple of different applications including:

Summarizing meetings with AI-generated notes
Providing live captioning for video calls (or real-time language translation)
Managing device performance and maintenance with battery life and WiFi management, and predictions of impending equipment failures or performance degradation
AI-enhanced image and video editing and processing, or text-to-image generation without relying on cloud servers
Enhanced security features including threat detection and security issue diagnosis

AMD’s new mobile chips include Ryzen PRO versions of every existing 8040U and 8040HS processor from the Ryzen 5 PRO 8540U chip to the Ryzen 9 PRO 8945HS. All of these chips feature Ryzen AI NPUs with up to 16 TOPS of AI performance.

Intel announces new stuff 2-3 years out and it never never comes to pass exactly as promised.
AMD announces stuff a month or two out and it comes to pass exactly as announced.

AMD always meets its chipset performance goals, while Intel always redefines what they say they are going to be making so they don't have to admit they had missed their original goals completely.

Intel simply sucks, in other words.

AMD is currently sitting at 16-24 TOPS (instead of the 40 TOPS that MS says it has to have to "meet AI PC requirements").

So, this new stuff still isn't MS AI PC grade capable yet ......

I wonder whose standard is this 16-24 TOPS level and when they are going to kick their stuff off big-time ???? ::) Or, if at all .......

Title: Re: Browsers and AI PCs
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 04/17/24 at 07:11:45

Intel's effort to build a foundry biz is costing far more – and taking far longer – than expected

If you wanna make money you've gotta spend money. And against Samsung it's gonna cost a lot

ANALYSIS Three years after CEO Pat Gelsinger announced Intel would create a foundry business that took on contract manufacturing gigs, Chipzilla has committed to more than $185 billion in spending across new and existing fab, packaging, and test sites.

Now with $8.5 billion in US CHIPS Act subsidies in hand and up to $11 billion of loans secured, Intel Foundry – an independently managed unit under the Intel umbrella – is pushing ahead with its plan to become the number two foundry operator behind TSMC by 2030.

In a report issued on Monday, Intel offered an update on how its ten largest projects are going – and it looks like it's going to be a little while longer before it's ready to leapfrog Samsung and give TSMC a run for its money.

US expansion gains momentum as costs rack up
US-based Intel has made domestic manufacturing a priority. So far that intention has seen it announce four fresh fab sites stateside – two in Arizona and a pair in Ohio.

The two facilities in Chandler, Arizona – Intel's Fab 52 and Fab 62 – have made the most progress since Gelsinger announced them in early 2021. As of December 2023, Intel revealed work on the fab's concrete superstructure had been completed. Construction crews are now working to install the automated material handling system, which Intel describes as an "automated highway" used to transport wafers.

The fabs are expected to come online later this year or early in 2025, and are slated to produce chips based on Intel's next-gen Angstrom era process tech – including its mass market 18A node.

Meanwhile, in Ohio – Intel's first new US fab site in more than 40 years – construction crews are busy digging. The foundry biz claims that in 2023 crews shifted more than four million cubic yards (3.53 million metric tons) of earth – the equivalent of 248,000 dump truck loads – and installed more than 32 miles (51.4 km) of conduit.

Much of the work this year will center on building out the fabs' utility level and bringing in "superloads" of manufacturing equipment necessary for the next phase of construction.

Intel's Ohio fabs are slated to come online in 2025. However, as we reported in February, it appears that delays to US CHIPS Act funding and changing market dynamics may have pushed completion dates into late 2026.

Beyond manufacturing delays, Intel faces several other challenges bringing these fabs online. First is rising construction costs – which have ballooned since Gelsinger first announced the Arizona and Ohio projects.

Intel's Arizona fabs were initially projected to cost about $10 billion apiece. But a little over a year later, the chip shop revealed the actual cost would be closer to $30 billion – and that it had brought in Brookfield Asset Management, a private equity firm, to help pay for the plants.

More recent reporting indicates the Arizona two fabs, along with upgrades to its existing Ocotillo manufacturing plant, will run roughly $32 billion. It's a similar story with the Ohio fabs, which were also slated to cost roughly $10 billion a pop. However as of early 2024, the estimate is closer to $28 billion.

To be clear, Intel isn't the only foundry operator dealing with rising costs. The expected scale – and by extension cost – of both TSMC and Samsung's Arizona and Texas fab sites have also exploded since their announcement.

Another challenge facing Intel and others building fabs in the USA is staffing. Shortages of skilled staff have forced delays for TSMC, while Intel is actively working to train personnel to run these facilities when they come online.

Last summer, the Xeon-slinger told us that the "US semiconductor industry could face a shortage of 70,000 to 90,000 workers over the next few years."

Wafer production is only part of a complex supply chain, which increasingly relies on advanced packaging technologies.

Along these lines, Intel has previously announced upgrades to its Rio Rancho, New Mexico facility –known as Fab 9 and Fab 11x. These upgrades – originally expected to cost $3.5 billion but now estimated to cost closer to $4 billion – aim to enable the facility to support advanced packaging in high volumes.

Headlines to check into to get a fuller picture
Intel's foundry business bled $7B in 2023 with more to come
Samsung snags $6.4B in CHIPS Act funds for Texas fabs
Intel scores $8.5B in government cheddar to supercharge fab builds
TSMC scores $11.6B funding infusion for Arizona fabs, now plans for third plant
Over the past few years, advanced packaging has emerged as a key technology for scaling compute beyond the reticle limit of a single silicon die. Technologies like Intel's EMIB 2.5D packaging and Foveros 3D packaging tech enable multiple dies to be stitched edge-to-edge or even stacked atop one another. We saw both technologies on display with Intel's GPU Max product family, better known as Ponte Vecchio.

With more chip shops (including AMD and Nvidia) embracing multi-die designs, the foundry challenger appears to be leaning on its tech to woo prospective customers away from TSMC – which is currently responsible for most advanced packaging not performed by Intel.

Intel celebrated the reopening of Fab 9 in January, and plans to install and qualify additional tools at it and Fab 11x later this year.

On the topic of advanced technologies, last northern Fall (Autumn) Intel broke ground on a new support building near its D1X fab in Hillsboro, Oregon. The R&D site will reportedly support the development of next-gen process tech.

When complete, the building will add an additional 35,000 square feet (3,251 sqm) of clean room space, and feature six docks to allow for faster installation of the latest tools at the fab. Over the next few years, Intel plans to invest $36 billion into its Hillsboro site.

Foreign investment abounds
Intel's foundry investments aren't limited to the US. Over the past few years, the chipmaker has invested heavily in upgrades to its Irish chip plants, announced new fab sites in Germany and Israel, and detailed assembly, test, and packaging facilities under development in Malaysia and planned for Poland.

Among the largest of these is the fab site in Magdeburg, Germany. It was announced in early 2022 as part of a €33 billion ($35.1 billion) investment in manufacturing across Europe, of which the German plant would account for approximately €17 billion.

The plant was expected to break ground in early-to-mid 2023 and begin producing components as soon as 2027. However, much like Intel's other fab projects to date, it quickly ran into trouble.

For one, the total cost of the facility continued to rise. In mid 2023, when the plant was expected to break ground, Intel had finally reached an agreement with the German government to subsidize costs by €10 billion ($10.6 billion) of the by then larger €30 billion ($31.9 billion) project.

The latest Intel update on construction progress contains little detail as to the status of the German build, but does mention an apprenticeship program to train local workers to run the facility when complete.

Intel's European expansion has, like its US developments, been plagued by staffing shortages. Intel needed about 3,000 staff to run the plant, but its three-year apprenticeship program reportedly had just two candidates enrolled for 2023, and 20 slated to start in 2024.

The reports raised concerns that unless Intel resolves this issue – either through additional training and incentives or through increased levels of automation – the plant could face additional delays before production commences.

As well as the Magdeburg plant, Intel is also working on a new fab at its existing campus in Haifa, Israel. Intel has operated out of Israel for 50 years and currently employs 11,000 people across four locations in the country.

The $25 billion Haifa project, detailed late last year, is slated to produce chips using extreme ultraviolet lithography (EUV) and is set to receive $3.2 billion in support from the Israeli government.

According to Intel, construction of Fab 38 – which is expected to come online sometime in 2028 – has commenced. However the report offers little detail. Considering the timeline of Intel's other projects, we'd wager that construction crews are probably still moving earth.

In addition to fabs, Intel has also made upgrades to existing facilities – including Fab 34 in Ireland, where the story is much the same as the others. Announced alongside Intel's investment in Germany, the Leixlip, Ireland-based fab was due to receive a €12 billion ($12.7 billion) investment to upgrade the facility to support EUV lithography necessary to produce chips using the Intel 4 process.

However, by the time the plant began volume production of the new node in September, costs had increased to €17 billion ($18.1 billion).

Intel also detailed progress on its advanced packaging facility in Penang and a fifth assembly test manufacturing plant in Kulim, Malaysia.

The former dates back to late 2021, and saw $7 billion set aside for a 710,000 square foot facility designed to manufacture products built using Intel's 3D Foveros packaging tech.

Intel also provided something of an update on its planned assembly and test facility in Wroc[ch322]aw West, Poland. The $4.6 billion project was first teased in mid 2023 and is designed to support Intel's European build out – including the facility in Magdeburg.

Beyond this, Intel didn't provide much of an update – other than to highlight joint research and development projects with Wroc[ch322]aw University of Science and Technology and to cultivate local talent to fill the 2,000 positions the site is expected to employ.

A long costly game
With its foundry build out well under way, Intel has begun taking steps to separate its Product and Foundry businesses to avoid the kinds of conflicts of interest that can arise when building chips for competitors.

Intel detailed the split at its Foundry Direct event in February. The two organizations will be separate legal entities with independent sales forces and ERP systems, Intel Foundry Services head Stu Pann explained at the time.

Intel Product and Foundry financials will be reported separately. We caught a glimpse of this earlier in the month, when Chipzilla released revised financial disclosures reflecting the change.

The new reporting structure effectively makes Intel Products look more like a fabless semiconductor manufacturer. Meanwhile, Foundry looks rather unhealthy – owing in no small part to the fact that Intel is its only major customer at this stage.

In 2023, Intel's revised records showed that its Foundry business had an operating loss of $7 billion. And with so much money wrapped up in capital expenditures, losses are not expected to disappear in the short term.

Speaking with analysts, Gelsinger warned that it would likely be 2027 before Intel turned the corner, with a not inconsiderable part of that being a reduced reliance by its Product group on rival foundries.

Many Intel products – like its Gaudi and GPU Max accelerators – are manufactured in part or in whole by TSMC. By 2027, Intel aims to reduce the amount of kit it outsources to other manufacturers from 30 to 20 percent of its total output.

Intel's mass market 18A process node – on which much of Gelsinger's Foundry bet hinges – won't see broad adoption until at least 2026.

Cheap and easy prediction time:

If China does not invade Taiwan, Intel will forfeit a bunch of big loans and be forced to divest itself of some of the failed Intel Foundry program.

In this progression, Intel will beg more $$

Title: Re: Browsers and AI PCs
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 04/21/24 at 18:35:15

Intel
..... estimates it will take them until 2027 to begin to break even on their existing commitments. So Intel will lose money (a lot of money) for the next 3-5 years.

Intel is actually betting that Trump will continue to dump US GOV money down the Intel rat hole during his entire administration.

Hmmmmmmmm ?????

If Intel does not get the huge amounts of money it has been getting from the governments---- what happens? Intel has to slow down a good bit, but as long as it has a contractual lock on all the PC box makers, it has a built in cash flow big enough to keep all its vital plans afloat, but these plans will not grow at the promised rates without .gov financing.

Please remember, Intel has a massively larger market share than AMD does because of the contractual lock it has on the PC box builders. Not that its processors are better, in recent history Intel products have been inferior but the Intel products have been more readily available in retail channels.

AMD has to fight Apple and all the others for TSMC allocation time and now that Intel is being built by TSMC there are signs that AMD is being choked out intentionally by Intel. Intel builds very large lots and warehouses them, AMD finds at critical points of their product introduction cycle that Intel has bought up all the TSMC space that Apple has left open.

All AMD has actually done is force Intel to get better at a faster rate that it would have chosen to do otherwise.

Title: Re: Browsers and AI PCs
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 05/09/24 at 22:06:17

Intel has reached their specified 1.8 angstrom level and has purchased ALL of ASML's machine building capacity for this entire next year all of which will be built at the 1.8 angstrom size.

TSMC has put all their money (really AMD and Apple's money) on the next level down for their new machinery level which is at 1.2 to 1.0 angstrom. ASML has at least one machine assembly line that can make the next level 1.2 angstrom machinery for Apple and is currently making test units for Apple/TSMC.

So, more of the same but still slightly smaller .........

No one else will be at 1.8 angstrom level but Intel. Intel has to buy in at some point in time and has picked 1.8 as their "all in" level.