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Message started by zipidachimp on 01/12/24 at 19:55:33

Title: Wasted my time !
Post by zipidachimp on 01/12/24 at 19:55:33

The last Vancouver Motorcycle Show was Jan/2020. One would think, after 4 years of introducing new models, that all of the OEMS would be eager to showcase these models. But Nooooo!
Absent were BMW, Can-Am, Ducati, Royal Enfield ! I really wanted to see all of the RE bikes, boohoooooo! Yam and Hon had larger displays, Suz and Kaw shared a space.
Bright spots: Hon SLC500, really nice but could use more forward footpegs IMO.
Triumph 400s....looks much better up close, really gorgeous, 39hp, 43mm upside down forks, nice price. I can see the India OEMs taking the low/mid price market.
Disappointing show overall.
Cheers! :(
ps: 7/8" bars feel really weird after 10 yrs of 1"

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by MMRanch on 01/12/24 at 20:42:56

I like the looks of the Triumph 400 Scrambler , but I'm locked into the RE 350 Meteor at the moment . I just installed the Performance Cam , to go with the DNA air filter group, and the de-cat pipe to open up the exaust ... it runs like a different bike and it even had near the torque of the Triumph 400 to begin with.
That Triumph big HP number has to come from some really high RPM's.
Like the Kawasaki 300 motor rated at 40HP but only 19 ft/lbs.

If I didn't already have a 350 Meteor then I'd be looking at the 350 Hunter . I've read that it doesn't have the speed limiter like the other 350's. Where I live the speed limiter (74mph/119kmh) is enough to get a person in trouble anyway , its 55 mph mostly ... some times 65 mph. It's got gearing for 90-something mph at red line even with the factory gearing.

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by zipidachimp on 01/13/24 at 01:42:15

The 2 bikes I was aching to see were the Hunter and Meteor, which came out after the 2020 show. I woudn't set foot in a dealer without cash in my pocket. Blew $16 for the show and $10 for parking. Lesson learned!
Cheers! >:(
ps: 16 degrees today !
pps: 'fess up, how good is the Meteor for a Saturday ride in the country? I really like those wheels!

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by Dave on 01/13/24 at 04:05:18

My neighbor bought a KTM 890 last Friday and I went to the dealer with him to pick it up. He was also looking at the Honda TransAlp and Africa Twin....or at least he was trying to - for some reason the Honda dealers have very little inventory and he could not find any dealers with those models in stock.

The dealer that he did buy from had KTM, Royal Enfield, Indian and GasGas - and the floor was filled with new motorcycle inventory. For Royal Enfield they had at least 6 of every model. For the KTM 890 that my neighbor bought the dealer said that KTM was allowing them to get 3 for the entire year....and they were all on the floor for sale. I don't know of Royal Enfield and Indian limit delivery to dealers in a similar fashion.

The Triumph 400 engine and Royal Enfield 350 engine appear to have taken different approaches.
The Royal Enfield is air/oil cooled, 20.1 HP @ 6,100rpm, 19.1 ft/lb torque at 4,000 rpm, 72mm bore x 85.8mm stroke, 9.5:1 compression.
The Triumph 400 is water cooled, 39.5 HP @ 8,000 rpm, 27.7 ft/lb torque at 6,500 rpm, 89mm bore x 64mm stroke, 12:1 compression.

Looking at the numbers the Royal Enfield is an engine that is built to take advantage of a long stroke to produce smooth torque and have a relaxed and easy going nature. The air/oil cooling may have limited the compression ratio to the 9.5:1....or perhaps a long stroke engine doesn't like higher ratios.....or they want the engine to be fuel friendly for all the remote places the bike will be ridden.

The Triumph is an engine that is built with a big bore and a short stroke to get make more HP - however the high compression ratio also provides more efficiency and raises the torque number as well (that higher torque number occurs at 2,500 rpm higher than the Enfield). The higher compression ratio may require the use of higher octane fuels - I searched and could not find what octane fuel the Triumph requires.

I have ridden MM's Meteor 350 for a few miles around Deals Gap. The bike seating is very comfortable - the seat is great, the handlebars are very high and therefore you aren't leaning forward to reach them so you have little weight on your arms and wrists, the footpegs are forward and your legs are relaxed. The engine is smooth and the shifting is nice - opening the throttle makes a small suggestion that the bikes speed should increase......but it seems there is no hurry to achieve that goal! (I had just got off my bike that has 90HP and was just not used to riding a bike with 20 HP). When we were riding at Deals Gap Mike was able to keep up with the normal riding speeds on most roads - climbing the Cherohala Skyway is where the bike struggled to keep pace - we came up behind some bikes that slowed down for each corner and they waved us around - but Mike waved them off as he didn't have enough power to pass on the short straight sections.

It is likely the Triumph 400 is a faster and more sporty ride than the 350 Meteor - however the standard seating position may not be as comfy on extended rides. The engine will require a bit more shifting to keep the engine spinning at rpm that it is happy at - the one test ride that I read liked the engine and said that it was pretty smooth and only felt "vibey" at speeds over 80mph.....the riders said it easily kept up with traffic and could out accelerate the cars driving in normal traffic.

The one thing that I find a bit disappointing about these 350-400cc motorcycles - is that they weigh close to 400 pounds. If you buy a 650cc bike they only weight about 50 pounds more! I guess I got spoiled by the little 250 Ninja that I owned.....it weighed 300 pounds, had 30 HP and could cruise all day at 80mph and got 70mpg on regular fuel. You did have to keep the rpm up and you had to shift a lot. It was a very comfortable bike to ride......you just had to ignore the fact that the engine was going 8-9.000 rpm as you cruised down the interstate! When you were riding in the mountains it required you to downshift 2-3 gears coming out of every uphill corner to pull out of the curve.....it was a fun (but not very relaxing) bike to ride around in the mountains.

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by ThumperPaul on 01/13/24 at 06:32:56

Good summary comparison, Dave. I'm trying to find a Triumph 400 that I can sit on and possibly test ride. I haven't found a dealership nearby that has any yet. It looks like a nice bike. The Street is supposedly going to retail for $4,995 while the Scrambler is like $5,595. I don't think I need whatever extras the Scrambler has. Hopefully the dealers don't try to price gouge beyond those figures.

And yes, you will have to rev it up to get some grunt and it will be shifty. Been there, done that, and it might be the thing that prevents me from buying one. Also, riding position is becoming more important to me as I age... I don't want to be stretched out over the tank to reach the handlebars with my heels up my arse.

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by zipidachimp on 01/13/24 at 11:25:17

Triumph 4 valves, Meteor/Hunter 2 valves.
Modern bikes are giving reliability etc.at the expense of weight. Triumph/BSA's 500/650 twins varied between 360/390 lbs. If I were king, midsize bikes would top out at 400bs.
I'm probably sticking with my easily modified S40, maybe a newer one, decruiserized, lots available!
Cheers! 8-)

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by zipidachimp on 01/13/24 at 11:35:40

Another thought: why not a wider adoption of belt drive? The belt on the S40 is painless, even after 16 years!
Cheers! 8-)

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by MMRanch on 01/13/24 at 19:41:32

Hay Zip

Saturday ride in the country ? Zip , Any of those RE 350 bikes ... are made for the "Perfect Saturday afternoon Ride in the Country" That is their main function in life , it's what they Excell at ! Just stay off the Interstate and Obay the speed limit (mostly) and you will never need anything else. There are other bikes than can do the "easy ride down a country lane" , but that 350 engine is so wonderful at it that the others just don't compare. The smooth , long stroke, heavy flywheel power delivery is at the top of the field. Like Dave said , that heavy flywheel just replys to throttle increases with a very casual "OK , we'll easy up a little faster if you want" . I gave mine a female name because she don't respond to "DEMANDS" very well at all !!! ;D
Hay , but to gently request , the Replys are the kind that leaves a Smile on my face every time.
Picture in your mind if you will : your in a third world country with not to good of roads , and really expensive fuel ... Durning "brake-in" I was getting 90 mpg usa gallons !

The RE Interceptor has an after market Belt Drive option , and the Super Meteor does too , but I think its about $600. US.

I rebuilt a Kawasaki W-650 a couple of years ago and put a new production "O-ring" chain on it ... well to my surprise it didn't need adjusting for nearly 4000 miles. The new chains are far different than the 1990s chains that I remembered. That's about the time I got my first Savage , then Harleys , then Moto Guzzi's.
All that being said :
I had put an aluminum rear sprocket on the 350 Meteor shortly after getting it , one day after 15,000 miles I noticed it (sprocket) had worn out ... so I replaced the chain and sprockets. You know I went back to steel .

forum.classicmotorworks.com/index.php?topic=35921.0

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by ThumperPaul on 01/16/24 at 08:37:46

Appreciate the low down on the Meteor, MM. I have been intrigued by it for a while.

Called the local Triumph dealership, and they won't have any of the Street 400s (or Scramblers) in stock for 3-4 weeks. They are only getting 4 bikes this shipment and 2 are already spoken for with deposits.

They will be selling at MSRP of $4,995 and dealer prep and destination adds $1,100. So, you're looking at $6,100+TT&L out the door. While not expensive relatively speaking, I'm not sure I want to drop $6,100+ on a 400cc bike. And they'd probably talk me into an extended warranty to boot.

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by MMRanch on 01/16/24 at 14:54:30

And they'd probably talk me into an extended warranty to boot.
......................................

RE has 3year unlimited miles on all their bikes. Just saying ???

Have you noticed the RE 450 that is replacing the Himalayan? If you don't mind liquid-cooled engins ...

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by ThumperPaul on 01/16/24 at 15:07:21

I saw that MM. I was also doing some reading on the RE forum and noticed several of your comments there.

The speed limiter was kind of a surprise and how it’s activated by the ABS system. Not that I want to cruise at 80mph for long stretches, but there are those times you just have to give it a good twist! I read the Hunter doesn’t have the speed limiter. That’s good and I like the looks of the Hunter, but I wouldn’t like the foot peg position after 20 minutes.

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by ThumperPaul on 01/16/24 at 15:10:46

I haven’t seen they are replacing the Himalayan. I need to look at the RE450. I sat on the Himalayan at the dealership about a year ago. I like it, but reality I’m not going to be doing any off road riding. Seat is a bit high for my 5’6” self too.

Edit: my bad…it’s still a Himalayan. Just 450 instead of 411cc.

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by MMRanch on 01/16/24 at 17:37:11

yes with the HP that goes with the liquid cooling ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyDAT9IR9xU

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by Ruttly on 01/17/24 at 09:29:00

It’s never wasted time when searching for the right bike Zipi !

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by Dave on 01/17/24 at 10:39:20

My neighbor and I went up to Iron Pony in Columbus to look around and so he could buy some riding gear.

They had a good selection of new Triumph, Indian, Kawasaki, Royal Enfield, Aprilia, KTM, Ducati, Suzuki and Yamaha motorcycles. Their selection of new Honda motorcycles was slim.

What is going on with Honda? The dealers don't have much inventory for 2024 motorcycles - my neighbor was looking for a new TransAlp or Africa Twin and there were none to be found.

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by MMRanch on 01/17/24 at 15:56:27

I used to think Honda bikes were top of the line bikes .
But
They have become what they used to compete against.
There isn't anything in Honda's line-up to catch my eye anymore. Then it seems Honda is Overpriced compared to what is available to choose from . I think they took off to chase the HP gods and forgot what regular people need in a motorcycle ? IMHO ... :)

See , why can't Honda make something that looks this good ? They want to black everything out , put on funky looking headlights and are water cooling almost everything they make anymore ???

I think I should have kept the White Guzzi Roamer I had for a while. ?

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by Dave on 01/17/24 at 18:50:41

6E7C6E7C71626D606B230 wrote:

I think I should have kept the White Guzzi Roamer I had for a while. ?

Yep you should have....I liked that bike when I rode it. It had nice torque and pulled the Cherohala Skyway well, and it felt comfortable.

Title: Re: Wasted my time !
Post by springman on 01/19/24 at 11:35:43

I was at the Woodlands BMW dealership a couple of weeks ago to check out the super meteor. It was really nice. While there I saw a triumph 400 but I believe it was a previously owned bike, which could possibly be a better deal. I asked about the new (2024) Himalayan but they did not have one. What I have read on the 2024 Himalayan is quite appealing.