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Message started by zipidachimp on 08/23/23 at 21:48:46

Title: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by zipidachimp on 08/23/23 at 21:48:46

Just noticed a slew of OEMs are bringing a raft of new mid-sized bikes to market. Honda, Triumph, Kawasaki, RE, Moto Morini, are introducing new 400cc to 750cc street models.
Typically, at the tail-end of my riding life, timing has never been my strength.
Cheers! 8-) or rather Rats! >:(

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Ruttly on 08/23/23 at 22:13:43

Screw your timing , just buy the one you want. Just do your homework first

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by springman on 08/24/23 at 11:05:12

You missed on Zipi. CF Moto 450 CL-C. 8-)

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/24/23 at 16:26:06

The CF Moto 450 has a liquid-cooled 450cc DOHC engine with a 270-degree crank and a bore and stroke of 77.0mm x 55.2mm1. It produces a claimed 50 hp at 9,500 rpm and 28.8 lb.-ft. of torque at 7,600 rpm1. The bike has a claimed curb weight of 370 pounds1. Other specifications include:
Largo x Ancho x Altura: 1990x735x1130 mm

I'm not excited about the fat tires,, haven't seen the price, but I like the look and weight.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by zipidachimp on 08/25/23 at 23:53:14

never heard of CFmoto !
Local Triumph dealer has every model, who knew? Priced similar to KTM, not cheap. Will have to investigate.
Kawi 400 Eliminator will be $8200 here. At that price I can buy a Meteor and a Hunter, or 3 S40s ! I like Kawi quality, but that's a bit much.
Cheers! 8-)

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Ruttly on 08/27/23 at 18:20:22

I just seen a Kawi 400 eliminator sc for $7300. As new bikes go it looks alright , like a naked standard. Lots of year end sales.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by zipidachimp on 08/27/23 at 23:00:37

I saw US msrp at $6700. Can $ is 0.73 US. Some markup !
Cheers! 8-)

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by sjaskow - FSO on 08/28/23 at 10:53:29

The Moto Morini Seiemmezzo looks really nice but at ~7500, it's a too expensive as a 2nd bike for me.

There was also a blurb in this month's AMA magazine saying Triumph is shooting for KTM 390 prices for their new 400s. That'd be ~6K for the street bike and ~7.5K for the adventure one.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by jcstokes on 08/28/23 at 12:14:11

I think CF Moto is Chinese, I saw some in a dealer in Melbourne Australia, while visiting there a couple of weeks ago.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/29/23 at 04:13:27

425B50425A5E46310 wrote:

As If riding a bike on the street Isn't an Adventure..

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Dave on 08/29/23 at 05:54:38

5D544443585C5244370 wrote:

I think CF Moto is Chinese.

I have a bit of trouble spending my money on these new motorcycle lines from China, India....etc. They just have not had time to prove that they are building a quality/durable product that will provide a positive ownership experience - one that includes reliable service and also the ability to sell the bike when the time comes to get something else. With the used Honda/Suzuki motorcycles I have bought - I have been able to resell them for nearly what I paid for them a few years earlier.

I see lots of Chinese scooters in Craigslist that are not running and in need of repair - but there could also be plenty of them on the streets that are doing just fine. I initially felt the same way about the KIA and Hyundai cars, and they seem to be doing just fine.

I believe Royal Enfield has shown itself to be a good choice - I am not sure about companies like CF Moto......only time will tell if they are good motorcycles. I just can't see myself buying a new CF Moto when I can get a good used Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha/Kawasaki/BMW/MotoGuzzi for the same amount of money.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Ruttly on 08/29/23 at 05:55:21

Jog , Ain’t that the truth !

Remember EVERYTHING is out to KILL YOU !
Adventure is a drug , the more you get the more you want

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Ruttly on 08/29/23 at 06:34:39

Cfmoto share engines with KTM , CF share assembly plants with KTM. I’m almost sure it’s the same company that owns KTM , Chinese owned. About KTM quality in comparison to CF would be good reading. Not because it’s Chinese but I just don’t like any of the bikes either company makes. I would try a Chinese bike. I would beat the tar out of it , not abuse it. Just see if it’s built good , only oil changes for maintenance.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by jcstokes on 08/29/23 at 20:47:03

CF Moto is the Zhejiang Chunfeng Power Oo.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Dave on 08/31/23 at 02:12:21

Even the Chinese can't keep them running!

(I understand that there could be many reasons they are in a junk yard....this is just an attempt at cheap humor).

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/31/23 at 06:43:22

WOWWWWW! That is one serious pile of bikes. I wish we could see how wide and long that pile of junk IS. It's China,, so, if there is a pile of junk like That, I wonder if it's visible from space?

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by jcstokes on 08/31/23 at 15:30:08

Saw a similar thing with Chinese electric cars, manufacturers are building them to appease some government target and them letting them die with littloe or no use.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by ohiomoto on 08/31/23 at 18:35:41

48737E6978746F69727A77681B0 wrote:

Even the Chinese can't keep them running!

(I understand that there could be many reasons they are in a junk yard....this is just an attempt at cheap humor).

----------------

I think those were just the ones not running off the assembly line.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Dave on 09/01/23 at 03:09:13

Sorry to drag the topic off a bit - but China tried the Shared Bicycle and Shared Electric bicycle programs, and it has resulted in a lot of "extra" vehicles. This is a quote from one of the articles: But the two-wheelers soon took over pavements and spilled over into bike lanes and streets, parked haphazardly by users who sometimes simply tossed the bikes into shrubbery, creating a headache for urban authorities and pedestrians. Many bikes suffered damage or were stolen, while some were even repurposed into makeshift barricades when Covid-19 broke out last year.

The article says that the number of bicycles has been limited to correct the problem - so the excess bikes have been removed from the cities and taken to these storage sites.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Dave on 09/01/23 at 03:09:50

Excess electric shared bikes.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Ruttly on 09/05/23 at 08:50:04

My as$ , just add a bolt action rifle for each bike and you have an invasion force. Wave after wave after wave , time to sharpen my Ginsu knife. That would give Rambo night sweats ! ;D

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by MMRanch on 09/11/23 at 19:37:39

So , they only come in Yellow or Blue ? We may just be seeing the tip of the ice-burg ? I'm sure there are the red and green ones somewhere ! :-[

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by springman on 09/13/23 at 09:02:18

You guys are too much! Just too much! ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/13/23 at 13:01:03

It's a shame there isn't a much bigger word for Excess.
Synonyms are insufficient for That level of excess.
They missed
STEWPIDITY

What do you expect from a communist society?

Synonyms:
overabundance
surfeit
exorbitance
plethora
superabundance
superfluity
glut
excessiveness
extravagance
profusion
overkill
overflow
redundancy
redundance
lavishness
surplus
inordinateness
abundance
embarrassment
undue amount
too-much
too many
fulsomeness
exuberance
copiosity
inundation
debauchery
dissoluteness
exorbitancy
extravagancy
extra
waste
wastefulness
flood
luxuriance
extravagantness
gravy
immoderation
oversupply
overdose
intemperance
overload
plenty
nimiety
over
embarras de richesses (French)
snootful
overboard
bellyful
overdoing
enough and then some
drug-on-the-market
overindulgence
too-much-of-a-good-thing
overplus
more than
over-and-above
plus
excessively
prodigality
extravagantly
to extremes
prolixity
rampancy
superfluousness
remainder
remainder exuberance
residue
satiety
slack
supererogation
superfluous
superflux
surplusage
verbiage
verbosity
Antonyms:

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by verslagen1 on 09/13/23 at 13:08:18

well... that was excessive. :-?

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Ruttly on 09/14/23 at 16:08:59

I’m impressed JOG , you learned how to spell ! ::)

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Dave on 10/09/23 at 16:34:03

Wanna' really ugly 400cc motorcycle?

https://cincinnati.craigslist.org/mcd/d/cincinnati-2019-husquvarna-svartpilen/7673092860.html

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Ruttly on 10/09/23 at 21:19:01

Someone wasn’t listening while I was teaching shapes & lines , that’s what you get. Yuch !

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by zipidachimp on 10/09/23 at 22:54:24

svartpilen: 2 wheels, engine. seat, tank, sounds like my S40! A true minimalist bike, bet it's a hoot on a country road!
Cheers! 8-)

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by ohiomoto on 10/10/23 at 16:41:46

I almost like the Svartpilen and Vitpilen. I think there might be some untapped potential.

There is something there that keeps me looking at it. It's like a futuristic 80s crotch rocket crossed with a modern naked bike.

I think it needs a fender or plate on the tail and maybe a little cleaning up.

http://https://pipeburn.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Husqvarna-Vitpilen-Custom-1024x683.png

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by MMRanch on 10/12/23 at 20:46:24

Where is it's butt ?

Maybe , it's priced for only 2/3 of a bike so they left off the rear part ? :( :( :(

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Dave on 10/18/23 at 03:33:58

The Benelli 400 looks good - unfortunately the engine is 347cc and it isn't very powerful.

https://www.benelli.com/us-en/products/imperiale-400

If they could build the same bike with a larger single (or a twin) that made more power it would be better suited for riding in the US.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by verslagen1 on 10/18/23 at 05:06:22

72-90 very baby savage like.
Wonder how thick the cylinder walls are?

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Ruttly on 10/18/23 at 08:49:53

It has the looks , but it looks heavy. Remove the passenger seat helps. 347 cc and only 8.5 to 1 compression , a tame machine for sure. If MM is out there on a 350 and liking it then I’m in , that was part of the decision to build a BSA 250 for the road , yeah a 250. I have turned the corner , I don’t need big H/P anymore or 500 lb bikes. I have way more fun riding a slower bike. I would rather see the countryside and enjoy my ride. Racers blood still pumps in these veins it just flows a little slower.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by ohiomoto on 10/18/23 at 16:29:48

73484552434F545249414C53200 wrote:

http://https://www.motorcyclediaries.in/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Benelli-Imperiale-400-first-ride-review-motorcyclediaries-16-1.jpg
Benelli 400

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by zipidachimp on 10/18/23 at 19:04:37

Kawi and Suzi had the right idea 20 years ago! Ninja 500 twin and GS500F twin! Bring 'em back!
Cheers! 8-)

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Ruttly on 10/18/23 at 20:15:46

435 lbs & 21 H/P , however for you purists looks to be a long stroke it’s showing bit of cylinder. Just like anything else needs piston & cam and a tune. :o

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Dave on 11/03/23 at 16:30:36

How about a 698cc single with 77HP?

The new Ducati single.

https://www.advrider.com/ducati-hypermotard-698-mono-breaks-cover/

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Serowbot on 11/03/23 at 16:49:24

That Duc is wicked!

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by MMRanch on 11/04/23 at 20:17:06

Racers blood still pumps in these veins it just flows a little slower.

Ruttly , your right . My hair ain't on fire no more ... ;)
But
Getting on a twisty two lane still stirs the urge to twist the throttle ! ;) :)

Hay , I'm still enjoying my 350cc 21HP 20 foot/pound bike but I should confess:
1. It helps me stay in legal bounds like I should and ride like the old man I hope to be one day.
2. I have put the DNA air intake system on it. (plus 1 HP)
3. I have put the De-Cat exaust on it . ( plus another 1 HP)
4. I have on hand the Performance camshaft ready to install at the next service interval. (plus another 4HP).
5. I'm still trying to act my age while driving and still Loving the 80+ plus MPG. :) with the 4 gallon tank.
;)
6. I've put the 1 tooth larger F-Sprocket on (6800 RPM = 98 mph now)
But still ...
Stay off the interstate and everything is just fine ! 8-)

The Benelli 400 has inter tubes ! :P
The Hunter version of my RE 350 don't have the speed limiter and it's about 30# lighter. Its under $4k new w/unlimited millage 3 year fender to fender grantee , from the oldest/continuous motorcycle manufacturer in the world. Once ya get the fire in your hair under control that is !! ;D

I hope I don't get cheated out of my sale commission this time ! :-/

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by LANCER on 11/05/23 at 03:45:40

6B505D4A5B574C4A5159544B380 wrote:

How about a 698cc single with 77HP?

The new Ducati single.

https://www.advrider.com/ducati-hypermotard-698-mono-breaks-cover/

This new Ducati single gets the blood pumping a bit.
Lots of power (77hp) and a pretty flat torque curve with 80% available above 3k and all available above 4k, and with a 10k redline.
Oooh weee !
Zoom Zoom [ch127949][ch65039][ch127949][ch65039][ch127949][ch65039]

This sucker is going to sell like hotcakes.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Ruttly on 11/05/23 at 09:01:24

MM , I’m absolutely love the fact you ride a 350 single. I believe as we age we tend to want a bike from years gone by , maybe previously owned one. I’m about to start a build , 1971 BSA 250 Victor. Yet even smaller thumper from days gone by that has come back to me. A road going 250cc , light & agile , completely overloaded with style & British shapes and lines , polished aluminum & chrome and yup real wide flat track bars. For me , it’s a single that gets it. The truest essence of motorcycling is a single.Be safe MM , don’t worry the urge the be a WOT on a backroad never goes away and never gets old. It’s no longer something we do , just simply who we are !

8-)

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Ruttly on 11/05/23 at 09:22:48

77 H/P , sounds like jail time to me. Hell I can’t contain myself on my tracker. I would like to ride one , I bet it just flys. Bet she is hella $$$$$. I bet MM would be right behind him waiting for a mistake and slide by. Fast bikes don’t mean a thing in tight twisties , it’s a fast rider that makes the diff. Got to be north of 10k ! You know she dances on the rear wheel at WOT and definitely does a little more than just kissing fast.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by LANCER on 11/05/23 at 10:19:27

Price was listed as $12k, and the write up said the programming has a feature that helps you maintain a wheelie for an extended distance.
I’ve never been a wheelie person, but maybe I could learn.
Maybe.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by ohiomoto on 11/05/23 at 17:15:37

7D464B5C4D415A5C474F425D2E0 wrote:

How about a 698cc single with 77HP?

The new Ducati single.

https://www.advrider.com/ducati-hypermotard-698-mono-breaks-cover/

-----------------

That is pretty cool.

Crazy Ducati news, they are launching a motocross program and are allegedly going to field a pro Supercorss and Motocross team in 2025. They don't even have any bikes in production.

It has been suggested that they are trying to counter KTM's rise in MotoGP by beating them in their backyard...motocross. They even stole nine-time Motocross World Champion Antonio Cairoli from KTM to help build the program. No one saw that one coming.

https://www.ducati.com/us/en/news/a-new-historic-chapter-opens-for-ducati-the-red-from-borgo-panigale-enters-motocross

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by MMRanch on 11/05/23 at 17:56:13

Back in High School , my seat in history class was next to the window facing the main road in front of the school.
There was a guy who would do Wheelies in front of the school and keep the wheel up for the length of the High School ... it made me drool for one of them 650 Triumph Choppers. Heck , I'd still like to have one of them (sort-of). :-/
I was watching one day when the Sheriff got him ... it ruined my show and that feller's day ! I never got to see a repeat performance either ? ::)

It would be fun to ride some one else's bike like that ! ;)

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Dave on 11/09/23 at 11:35:18

I have no idea where the dealers in the US are.....I need to go and put down a deposit! (Although it is not really a light weight bike at 470 pounds!).

https://www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-reviews/bsa-gold-star-first-ride-review-2022/

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by MMRanch on 11/09/23 at 18:09:18

It would be too easy to have a shop full of bikes !

I like the looks of the Triumph speed 400 too !

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Dave on 11/10/23 at 03:05:48

The real truth is - I have not purchased a new motorcycle since 1977 when I bought a Suzuki RE5 Wankel. I worked at a dealer and there was a $1,000 rebate and closeout on the bikes - I got it for $1,700. I sold it when I moved to Cincinnati and started college......I sure wish I still had it!

The Goldstar was scheduled to begin distribution in the UK in 2022, and that got delayed and bikes didn't show up at the "new" dealers until 2023. The bike is not yet available in the US - and if you go to the BSA website to find a dealer they don't show any in the US.

The Retro Standard Savage that I am in the process of building will be 130 pounds lighter, far simpler and easy to maintain, and I have all the tools I need to work on it......I will probably not be buying a Goldstar.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Ruttly on 11/10/23 at 08:29:24

Maybe 3 years ago but now a near quarter ton bike isn’t at the top of my list anymore. Not saying I won’t but highly unlikely. Tracker and BSA 250 project about to start , why ? However it is a desirable machine and would love to be seen on one. My last brand new bike was in 1983 , a Honda XR200R.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Ruttly on 11/10/23 at 16:29:22

1983 , Waay overdue !

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by ohiomoto on 11/10/23 at 17:11:44

I thought you all hated the radiator on the Goldstar?

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Ruttly on 11/10/23 at 20:23:34

Almost everything has a radiator , it’s still a cool bike

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Dave on 11/11/23 at 03:53:01

23242523212338234C0 wrote:

I thought you all hated the radiator on the Goldstar?

While a radiator does add weight and does not help with the looks - the reality is that modern performance and pollution requirements pretty much mandate the bike be water cooled. Some bike brands do a better job of hiding the radiator (and exhaust catalyst) and they aren't horribly looking.

The water cooling does add some more parts (water pump, radiator, thermostat, cooling fan and hoses - it does not seem to affect reliability early on.......who knows how the systems hold up on bikes that get to be 15, 20, 25 yeas old. On modern bikes with so many plastic and rubber parts I question weather they will be able to function as long as the old bikes with carbs and metal parts.

If I stay healthy I hope to have 20+ years of riding left - if I keep my bikes in the garage and out of the sun when I am not riding them, I hope the bikes age well and don't start decomposing beneath me.

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by ohiomoto on 11/11/23 at 05:53:19

I think the bike looks great and I don't mind the water cooling at all. I thought it got a thumbs-down from more than a few members in a previous thread.

I guess you weren't one of them and I could be remembering it wrong.

Edit: I guess the water-cooling hate wasn't as bad as I thought. It was discussed and you cleary weren't once of the haters. haha
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1638578226/0

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by MMRanch on 11/11/23 at 20:13:33

I thought you all hated the radiator on the Goldstar?

That would be me ... Somehow the anti freeze and two wheels don't seem right ? :-?

I did catch myself looking at the reviews of the Triumph 400 Scrambler . ::)

The up-stepped pipe might not be good for putting a passenger on ?
But
The 39Hp would work just fine ! ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6igdCnYjBt4

Enjoy ! :)

Title: Re: Right-Sized Renaissance !
Post by Dave on 11/12/23 at 03:05:22

MM:

Wow.....that is a long video to watch in 1 sitting. I get up at 5AM and I was able to watch it while the other folks in the house are still sleeping.

The Triumph 400 looks like a capable bike. However it appears to be a "me" bike....it looks a bit small and the passenger pegs a bit too high to be a bike a passenger would enjoy. Marcia would not likely be able to sit on the back for any extended period of time........you need to get her on the back at the dealer when the bike makes it to the US.

You may still need to own a "we" bike for the rides that are going to be ridden double with Marcia along for the ride.