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Message started by LuckyLuna on 08/04/23 at 05:39:50

Title: Age old belt question
Post by LuckyLuna on 08/04/23 at 05:39:50

Sorry, I tried searching but I didnt find any answer.

I'm looking to find out the deviation on a 10lb belt tensioner for this bike. I know theres the "turn it 90*", stuff rolling around, but I need numbers, not arbitrary wrist strength. In the service manual it talks about using the supplied belt tensioner but it has 0 information on how much the belt should move etc..

I cant get this darn belt to not squeak, its from the back pully area, and I would love to not spend $125 to take it to a mechanic for a loose belt..

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by verslagen1 on 08/04/23 at 07:25:35

if you have the belt tensioner, it has marks on it for the amount of movement.

and there's a video in the tech section for belt tension.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1335401723

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by LuckyLuna on 08/04/23 at 07:44:52

what amount of movement is in spec? I don't have a stock tensioner. 10mm movement? 36? 50?

I'm trying not to go by the arbitrary twist method.

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by Fast 650 on 08/04/23 at 09:16:22

If your pulley bearing is worn you will get belt noise from the rear no matter how you adjust the belt. This thread has the info on checking and fixing that problem.

https://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1561964431

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by Dave on 08/04/23 at 12:20:31

How many miles on the bike/belt?

Does it sit outside in the weather?

If you grab the front and back of the rear pulley - can you rock it back and forth perpendicular to the wheel? (Not rotation....but in/out movement).

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by LuckyLuna on 08/06/23 at 09:54:23

Miles: about 7500k. its stored indoors, and there is play in the pully if I wiggle it away and from the tire

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by Surviving Philly on 08/06/23 at 17:57:33

Other than the squeal is there any issue running the bike with the worn bearing? Handling issues? Safety concerns?

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by Bob Scogin on 08/07/23 at 07:38:29

5C6D79606263606D620C0 wrote:

Other than the squeal is there any issue running the bike with the worn bearing? Handling issues? Safety concerns?

Yes, you run the risk of damage to the wheel hub parts and yourself if the bearing seizes.

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/07/23 at 10:30:02

If you're tired of it squeaking, loosen it. See those great big ribs? Hafta get Real loose before they jump,ehh? The twist method is a feel. If an anemic eleven year old can twist it, it's okay. The Official Spring loaded tool is guaranteed to have it squeaking.
Don't be afraid to just Try Something, man. It's a Belt, not a rod end.
Check your alignment.

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by ohiomoto on 08/07/23 at 16:08:02

All of the information here is good. I did the bearing mod, checked alignment, adjusted tension, etc. Most of these things worked...for a while. But eventually, the belt still squeaked and squealed.

So I fixed it...

http://https://cdn.rona.ca/images/1449036a_L.jpg

I'm guessing any paste wax will work, but that's what I had.

I apply a liberal amount once or twice a year. I found that I usually need to do two coats each time. Slather some on, do a short ride, and repeat.

It hasn't squeaked this year, so maybe it holds up once you get enough worked into the belt. Or it could be that I no longer have a 20-mile freeway commute (more heat??). I'm not sure, maybe it will start up again this week.

I would still look into the other suggestions, but maybe this will help.

Good Luck.

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by LuckyLuna on 09/04/23 at 08:41:23

So I Pulled the rear tire off. one of the pictures shows the inside rubber dampners, Do they look bad? when the tire is on the bike, theres some wobble, but from when I did a glance at the bearings they dont look terrible, and they spin smoothly.

Also second picture, is that spacer, whatever it is, situated the right way or is it the other way. I can remember how it came out.

http://https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/6829/xhX6ze.jpg

http://https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/9402/iXhLtk.jpg

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by verslagen1 on 09/04/23 at 20:52:54

1920363E2C19203B34550 wrote:

So I Pulled the rear tire off. one of the pictures shows the inside rubber dampers, Do they look bad? when the tire is on the bike, there's some wobble, but from when I did a glance at the bearings they don't look terrible, and they spin smoothly.

Also second picture, is that spacer, whatever it is, situated the right way or is it the other way. I can remember how it came out.

your pic's are too large, please reduce to 800x600 or so.

if the wheel is wobbling because of the wheel bearings, then you should replace them before they fail.
or do you mean the pulley wobbles, if so then you need to replace that bearing.
and there's a mod for a double row bearing.

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by Dave on 09/05/23 at 03:28:29

The wear on the rubber blocks is an indication the pulley is wobbling.

Do the double row bearing replacement to solve the issue.

The spacer in your photo should be turned the other way and inserted into the pulley bearing. You need to hold it in place while you place the pulley hub up to the wheel....that darn thing falls out if you don't.

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by LuckyLuna on 09/05/23 at 07:52:44

Thank you!

Is there any tricks to getting the old bearing out? or just brute force and a screwdriver?

I'm going with DBM's fix I believe.

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by Ruttly on 09/05/23 at 09:04:36

Just tap it out with a hammer and punch. Freeze new bearing and a bit of oil and it should drop into your clean hub , might need a tap to two. Easy !

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by verslagen1 on 09/05/23 at 09:57:43

I used the biggest bolt I had (about a 5/8") spacers, plates and whathaveyous.

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by LuckyLuna on 09/10/23 at 12:29:07

Ok, so I did the Spacer mod, and got it all back together. squeak is still going strong. belt looks like its staying in place on the pully and not wandering, and also the wobble in the wheel pully is gone (by a lot!). the old bearing didn't look terrible, no broken bearings, grease looked ok..

So I went and played with the belt tension, super loose, mid. nothing helped the squeek. Its defiantly coming from the back wheel, and its only when I'm giving to gas.

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by DragBikeMike on 09/10/23 at 15:16:39

Your belt shouldn't be squeaking, and you shouldn't need any sort of wax or goo to keep it from squeaking.

Check your pulley alignment.

Remove the belt guard, front pulley cover, and left rear shock absorber. Then clamp a straight edge to the rear pulley as shown here. I use a saw guide. It works great.

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by DragBikeMike on 09/10/23 at 15:18:45

The straight edge should be in intimate contact with the face of the rear pulley, as shown here. It must contact all the way across the pulley.

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by DragBikeMike on 09/10/23 at 15:28:50

Now verify that the straight edge is running parallel to the front pulley. It should be an equal distance away from the front and rear edges of the front pulley, and the gap should be about 1mm. Adjust the rear wheel adjusters to achieve correct alignment. For instance, if there is no gap, loosen the right-side rear wheel adjuster. If there is too much gap, loosen the left-side rear wheel adjuster. Play with the rear wheel adjusters until you have a uniform gap (approx 1mm) across the front pulley. Once you have it aligned properly with all the fasteners tight (axle nut, wheel adjusters), note the position of the adjuster marks on the swingarm and record for later use. You have to play around with it until you have good alignment and proper belt tension.

This shows what things should look like when you have good alignment.

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by LuckyLuna on 09/10/23 at 17:51:38

Ok, so I did that (Photos) and while the squeak is better, its still there I drove just down the street and back. I thought to seemed to get more squeeky as I drove but that might have been me. The belt might be too tight as this point, I was having a hard to balancing the tightness and the alignment. Do you see anything I'm doing wrong here?

http://https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/8857/CWRZOW.jpg
http://https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/3584/iRXerD.jpg
http://https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8313/8weTbF.jpg

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by DragBikeMike on 09/11/23 at 02:31:32

I like your alignment rig. Using the level is a great idea since it provides additional surface engagement on the rear pulley. You need to move the straight edge a little farther forward such that it overlaps the front pulley as much as possible.

I can see from your photo of the front pulley that the straight edge is not parallel with the pulley. The front portion of the straight edge is significantly closer to the pulley than the rear portion. So, the rear pulley is not parallel to the front pulley. You need to loosen the right-rear adjuster, or tighten the left-rear adjuster. I would loosen the right-rear, but you must decide based on your belt tension.

I know you are confident that the squeal is coming from your rear wheel, but noises can be tricksters. I've been fooled more than a time or two. Try riding the bike with the front pulley cover removed to rule out any rubs on the front pulley. Be careful, take appropriate precautions to prevent getting tangled up in the belt/pulley. Just ride it long enough to rule out pulley rubs.

Good luck.

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by LuckyLuna on 09/11/23 at 04:09:01

My test rides where without both covers. I just slapped the shock back on and would take it out.

Title: Re: Age old belt question
Post by verslagen1 on 09/11/23 at 07:00:01

That's the method I used to verify alignment on the beast when I put the kawasaki wheels on it.
But, fine tuning was still necessary to get the belt to run in the middle of the pulley.

5D4E5958474A4C4E451A2B0 wrote:

There are rubber dampers that are inbetween the pulley and the hub.
And there's a bearing between the pulley and the axle.
Could be the bearing is wore out, could be your dampers are too loose.

also it could be that your bike is bent.

My method for checking the belt alignment is different from the rest.
Lift the rear, take it out of gear and spin the wheel by hand. watch the belt if it tracks to one side readjust to center it. then reverse the direction of spin and recheck the belt.

Now with a wobly pulley, this might not work. But I've done it on 3 bikes, one I'd adjusted incorrectly and it squeaked and another that was brought to me squeaking. One more that I took completely apart and put back together with no problems.