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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release cam /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1685732316 Message started by Dave on 06/02/23 at 11:58:35 |
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Title: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release cam Post by Dave on 06/02/23 at 11:58:35 There have been a few members who have broken the clutch release cam, and it can be horribly inconvenient when it happens. When it happens you no longer have the ability to operate the clutch.....the bike remains in motion! It happened to me on Wednesday night just as I was pulling into a parking spot at the Quaker Steak and Lube bike night...and it was not incredibly graceful. I just began to slow down to put my bike in the lineup of bikes, and suddenly the clutch lever went to the handlebar and the bike kept going. I applied the brakes hard and reached for the kill switch.....there was a bit of lurching and tire slide as we came to a jerky stop. Once I had landed I looked to see if the clutch cable had broken - but it was fine and the clutch actuating lever on the right side engine case was moving fine as I worked the clutch lever on the handlebar....I knew it was the release cam. Last year I had done the DragBikeMike DR650 clutch conversion - and I used the stock release cam as that was all that was available at the time. The clutch had been working fine with the exception of an annoying chatter that would sometimes occur if you let the clutch out too quickly (more on that later). I had bought one of the "new and improved" release cams that TheSneeze had manufactured by a machine shop - but I had not gotten around to installing it yet. Getting the bike hauled home was going to be a bit inconvenient, as I would either have to call a friend and have them spend 2 hours making it happen - or giving me a ride home so I could spend 2 hours hauling the bike home. The bike show was about 25 miles from home, and about 20 miles of the ride was on I-275 that has ON/OFF ramps and no intersections.....I had about 6 traffic lights to negotiate. I waited until traffic had died down and started the bike, and it sounded fine with no weird noises. I started the bike and coasted down the driveway ramp and clicked it into first gear and started down the road. JOG claims you can shift the Savage without a clutch - but my bike is really difficult to shift smoothly without using the clutch....while I cam make 4th/5th/4th gear changes pretty smoothly - the bike jerks hard when shifting the lower gears.....I guess there is so much momentum built up in that heavy rotating mass of engine. I made it through the first traffic light fine - but the second one got me and there was just too much traffic to try and get through without stopping. I had to stop and then get the bike going again in first gear by pushing and using the starter simultaneously. The next 20 miles went just fine and the bike was cruising like normal. The next few traffic lights I was able to get through green by adjusting my speed and anticipating when I could get green. About 4 miles from home I had some weird scraping/grinding sounds that lasted less than a second each....there where 3 events pretty close together. I made it home successfully. On Thursday I took the bike apart to see what happened. Sure enough, the release cam had broken. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by Dave on 06/02/23 at 12:02:10 The broken pieces of the clutch cam evidently started moving around when I got close to home - they did some damage. The LS650 outer clutch basket had some pieces broken off. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by Dave on 06/02/23 at 12:04:54 In addition the DR650 clutch basket had some gouges in the friction surface, the outermost steel and fiber plates were damaged. The inside of the right side clutch cover was banged up a bit but it was not damaged functionally. Below are all the pieces that had to be replaced. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by Dave on 06/02/23 at 12:12:02 The good news is that I had all the parts I needed to do the repairs. I had a spare LS650 outer clutch basket, a DR650 inner clutch basket, the replacement clutch release cam that TheSneeze has made from harder steel, and I had a new EBC outer fiber disc, and a good used LS650 steel disc. I put the original outer disc with the spring washer into the DR650 clutch modification...and the so far the clutch is working smoothly and that chatter that had occurred previously is gone. For some reason that spring washer in the clutch pack is necessary. In hindsight riding the bike home was likely not a brilliant decision. If I had hauled the bike home the only thing I would have needed to replace was the broken release cam. I did have some aluminum shavings in the engine case, and I picked out the big ones and flushed the other ones out with a squirt bottle filled with diesel fuel....followed by 5W-20 oil. After a ride around the block to heat the engine up I dumped the oil and strained it....and I found no additional shavings. Below is a comparison shot of my broken stock release cam, an OEM Suzuki one that is made from compressed powder metal, and the improved one that TheSneeze had manufactured. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by och on 06/02/23 at 12:43:13 That is crazy! Now I am paranoid - what is the correct order of operation if this happens on a highway? |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by Dave on 06/02/23 at 12:50:36 7478731B0 wrote:
You don't have much worry as long as your clutch is stock. Most folks who have broken the cams have installed stronger springs, put washers under the springs, etc. in an effort to get more power from their clutch. Based on my recent event......the least damage and cheapest repair would have resulted from me hauling the bike home - rather than riding it home. If you want the least risk of clutch release cam failure - buy and install one of the better ones that TheSneeze had manufactured for us. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by TheSneeze on 06/02/23 at 13:45:30 Dave - sorry to see you let it get to failure before installing the stronger cam. DBM use a piece of feeler gage as a shim when he installed the stronger cam. There is some small play on the shaft with my part. I still have these stronger parts available, btw. Not many left, but I do have some. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by verslagen1 on 06/02/23 at 14:49:32 I must of been lucky, my failure occurred on the fwy at speed. Pulled off in a wide spot off to the left, diagnosed the problem and decided to ride it home. Starting the 1st time was nerve racking, started in neutral, pushed like hell then jammed it into gear, 2nd was even more fun. After that it was easy, I've practiced clutch-less shifting for quite awhile. Up-shifting is no problem, downshifting however is gut wrenching but only had to do it at the end of the fwy run. And then killed it at the stop light, neutral was impossible to find. 2nd start was like Dave said, start button, push like hell and hi ho silver. And no damage other than the clutch arm being split in 2. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by ThumperPaul on 06/02/23 at 16:02:27 Really just grateful you are doing well, Dave. This is one of those nightmare incidents, I hope to never encounter! Carry on Brother! |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by Moarpower on 06/02/23 at 17:05:03 Ouch. Glad no other damage was done. Is this an issue that can happen at any time ? Or are higher mileage and riding styles more prone? |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by ohiomoto on 06/02/23 at 17:16:32 That sucks but at least you made it home safe. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by Dave on 06/02/23 at 17:41:21 7F5D5340425D455740320 wrote:
I don't believe YouzGuyz has broken one in his 300,000 plus miles on his 2 bikes. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by DragBikeMike on 06/04/23 at 00:59:17 Could you imagine the humiliation if you had piled into that line of custom bikes? Very glad you didn't suffer that, but also sorry to hear about the damage on your super-fine cafe. Glad you got it back on line. Can you tell us what clutch springs you were running prior to the failure, and what the preload height was? What springs are you running now? BTW, installing the wave-washer increases the preload by about 0.5mm. The special fiber plate is thicker. I am currently running the wave-washer in an attempt to eliminate squealing and grabbiness. I can't explain why it develops the squeal and gets grabby. Seems to be some sort of uneven engagement issue. Every time it acts up I find the clutch nut loose and the thrust washers worn. So far, after about 2000 miles, no squeal, no grabby. I will update the clutch post in a week or so. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by Dave on 06/04/23 at 02:35:25 05030C70727571410 wrote:
I am running stock springs I believe. I did not measure anything...just put it together. And.....I did not know the outer plate was thicker. That solves the mystery of why I could not use the same push rod that I have been running previously. I bolted things together and discovered the lever on the case was far too high and above the mark on the case. I made a longer pushrod using a piece cut from a long 1/4" drill bit. I carefully rounded and polished the ends to get the profile as close to the stock rod as I could. I rode the bike over to my friends house yesterday, a round trip of around about 50 miles and the bike worked great - the DR650 clutch is working great and the action is much smoother with the metal washers and special fiber plate installed. (I went over to my friends house to help him drill holes in a new windshield and fit the freshly painted bodywork on his John Player Special Norton.......a really cool bike that he will be entering in the Cincinnati Arthritis Foundation Concours in a few weeks). |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/04/23 at 18:55:07 I wasn't the one riding when mine broke, so I don't know exactly what happened or how it was ridden,because the thingy riding it was my first ex SIL,who I eventually had prosecuted and imprisoned for stealing thirteen Pounds of PreSammich coins from me. It yanked the cam chain guide and broke it. I really miss that POS . Sarc... The sintered part is not radiused where it would be if the part was designed by someone who gave it a moment's thought and had half of a care. I understand Why they built it that way. Machining it would be a lot more costly. But I would have gladly paid another twenty dollars for the bike. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by youzguyz on 06/05/23 at 09:02:22 6F54594E5F53484E555D504F3C0 wrote:
I don't believe YouzGuyz has broken one in his 300,000 plus miles on his 2 bikes. [/quote] I thought I had one break at some point in time. However, my sketchy maintenance logs don't mention it, and I can't find an email from any of the places I buy parts with mention of one. I'm old.... I forget things. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by TheSneeze on 06/05/23 at 09:45:53 I have no record of ever selling you one, either. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by Tocsik on 06/07/23 at 14:10:34 Mine broke on a stock motor at just under 19K miles. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1533781090 |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by Dave on 06/09/23 at 16:36:05 The clutch cam broke last Wednesday, and I had it fixed the next morning.....thankfully I had all the parts I needed. The DR650 clutch conversion is working very well. It has a nice easy lever pull and shifts great. This morning I took of the Chinese shocks and put back on the Progressive shocks with lighter springs and went for a test ride. The bike rides so much better - those Chinese shocks are just too stiff for the routine bumps and humps on normal pavement. I rode about 100 miles today and stopped for lunch at the Lennoxburg General Store. Verslagen, MMRanch, and Lancer will recognize this place. I had to park in front of the garbage cans as the other spaces where filled with cars when I arrived.......I generally park here anyhow as there isn't enough room for a car to park there. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by Ruttly on 06/10/23 at 18:14:38 Next time in front of that vintage fuel pump over yonder. ::) |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by DragBikeMike on 06/10/23 at 18:38:50 That looks like my kinda place. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by Dave on 06/11/23 at 03:00:14 103736362E3B420 wrote:
I couldn't when I arrived....they still use it and folks were getting gas. it is not uncommon to see a tractor fueling up at that pump. If you look closely (Over the top of the concrete porch) in the photo you can just see the top of the silver tanks that hold the gas. They make really good food - I had the "Hot Mama" which is a hamburger with Pepper Jack Cheese and Jalapeno slices. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by LANCER on 06/11/23 at 04:02:04 I remember this place, good food and nice folks. |
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Title: Re: Well Dang - Bitten by the stock clutch release Post by youzguyz on 06/12/23 at 03:14:35 67785D5A505955465F340 wrote:
It was before you were making them.. or I would have gotten it from you. |
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