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Message started by J Mac on 04/24/23 at 19:13:48

Title: Title Blues (vent)
Post by J Mac on 04/24/23 at 19:13:48

Yes, I know I'm an idiot and it's my fault. I was on a road trip for work last fall and bought my S40 from a town 8 hours away (another state, of course). It wasn't the deal of the century, but the condition was excellent, and mileage was extremely low. At the 11th hour, I was told the title I was being given was from a prior owner and not the guy selling it to me. He had never titled it. I was tired, and I thought that since I had the only existing title document, I could work it out back home. I was wrong. To make a long story short, every angle I try to work this from dead-ends with people who don't care. The seller is a prominent lawyer, and he doesn't care. The previous owner whose title I have isn't compelled to help much. There is a way to get a court-ordered title in my state, but the police and judges I've talked to either don't know anything about remedies in their own state or don't care to return my calls. I find state/county governments in the US really tedious, obstructive, lazy, and crappy. I guess I'm a different kind of person, but if I put a buyer of my vehicle in a bind, I'd bust my rear end to help them. If I was a previous owner of a vehicle that the guy I sold it to never registered and resold it, I would gladly do 30 minutes of paperwork to help a poor schmuck out. At this point I'm so annoyed I'm tempted to get a license plate from eBay and ride it. I said tempted; I don't want to do 30 days in jail when stopped by one of the people too lazy or uninformed to help me in the first place. I've put a few hundred dollars and some hard time into this bike assuming I could work it out in due time, and I'm annoyed.

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by Dave on 04/25/23 at 02:47:42

I had trouble getting a trailer titled. I had bought it from a man who never titled it and only had the Certificate of Origin...it was 13 years old. Titles are not required for trailers in KY...and I had owned the trailer for 10 of those 13 years without getting it titled. The man who I bought it from was deceased when I was trying to get a title.

Before I pulled the trailer to Texas 3 years ago I wanted to get it titled and licensed. Every time I went to the title agency they told me something different.....and when I came back with what they asked for previously it still wasn't accepted. I had made 4 attempts to get it right and failed each time.

I finally sent an email directly to the County Clerk and explained the trouble I was having. He sent my emails to one of his employees that actually has helpful. When I showed her that I had - she called down to the State Office and got a few questions answered, and 15 minutes later I had my application accepted.

Try going up the ladder (in a nice way without name calling) - and explain what the issues are.......the County Clerk is an elected official and he may be willing to help. You may also try going to a local auto/motorcycle used car dealer.....they may be able to provide you with a good contact at the title agency and they may have a good relationship with them. I recently bought a motorcycle from a fellow who buys and sells a lot of old bikes......he takes the clerks donuts and cookies on holidays and they are very helpful when he comes in.

I have recently sold a couple motorcycles, a car and a couple of trailers and the clerks office has been very good at helping me......so I took them a box of cookies the last time I went in! Who knows when I am going to need them again!

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by J Mac on 04/25/23 at 22:49:05

754E4354454952544F474A55260 wrote:

I had trouble getting a trailer titled. ...

Thanks, Dave. Those are some good suggestions. Louisiana is a little bit "difficult" (that's all I'm going to say), but where there's a will, there's a way. I want to be able to ride this bike before another 6 months pass ::)

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/26/23 at 07:47:53

I was watching a YouTube and the guys were explaining how they get the old cars titled.
I was really hoping to remember the state, but, no such luck. What I Do remember is
There is a state that will issue a title with a bill of sale. They need the VIN, of Course. I want to say that state is in the North East.
Maybe the Abandoned Vehicle approach would get it.

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by ThumperPaul on 04/26/23 at 09:22:51

Hey J Mac. That sucks. About the only work around I can think of to avoid the hassles of the states is to "compel" the previous owner to help you. Pay him a small fee to get a copy of the title and then do a bill of sale to you with a current date. I know this is a bit sketchy, but in essence pretend the attorney was never involved with the bike.

Did the attorney sign the title you are holding? If not, you could just use the title you have and ask the previous owner to complete a bill of sale to you as of "today". Throw him $20 for his trouble.

Good luck. I've had similar hassles. It sucks.

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by Eegore on 04/26/23 at 19:18:20

What about salvage title?

I know in CO if you can't get the title owner to sign over a title due to previous sale, or deceased etc. you can essentially pay more to get a salvage title.

I haven't done it myself, but I know someone who did. Basically the idea is a person can't sell a vehicle, then refuse to acknowledge it. I wish I had more assistance for the State you are in.

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/27/23 at 18:39:29

It would seem like if you can prove you paid someone for a motorcycle, you should be able to get them to get you a title.
Most lawyers will give you a free meeting.

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by J Mac on 04/27/23 at 20:32:02

That's the Vermont Title loophole. The vehicle has to be at least 15 years old. Mine is 11. They don't give you a title as resident of another state, but they let you register it and issue you a license plate/registration. Then, you take this registration to your home DMV and use it in place of a title, because you CANNOT get a title from Vermont when you register as a non-resident. The logic is that your home state is compelled to let you register the vehicle at home given you have a legal registration from another state. Are people supposed to tell them the vehicle is from their vacation cabin in VT? I can't believe this loophole works anywhere (but it apparently does), and I guarantee the Louisiana OMV would laugh it me if I tried this.

5C4345425F5869596951434F04360 wrote:

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by J Mac on 04/27/23 at 20:33:14

5C4345425F5869596951434F04360 wrote:

It would seem like if you can prove you paid someone for a motorcycle, you should be able to get them to get you a title.
Most lawyers will give you a free meeting.

One would think so. The guy I got it from is a well-known defense lawyer. I couldn't afford to sue him :o. He should have known better too.

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by J Mac on 04/27/23 at 20:35:59

Thank you. The salvage title crossed my mind, but my understanding is that I have to get an insurance company to declare the vehicle a loss to get a salvage title. I'll be working with a Justice of the Peace to try and get a court-ordered title. He said it will probably take 3-4 attempts to get it to work given how much a pain our nitpicking OMV is. One would think they would be glad to get my money sooner (tax, title, registration).

6646444C5146230 wrote:

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by J Mac on 04/27/23 at 20:37:56

I heard New Jersey has an abandoned vehicle provision where you create a public notice, and if nobody objects within some time period, you're home free. I wish Louisiana had that.

7F6066617C7B4A7A4A72606C27150 wrote:

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by J Mac on 04/27/23 at 20:45:02

Thanks, Paul. I'm trying to do exactly that in parallel with some other things. What you mentioned is exactly what the State Police officer and a title company suggested. The original owner on the title seems quite reluctant to help me. All he did was e-mail me a clean PDF of the title. Useless, and I never asked for that. I gave him the forms and postage and fee to request a duplicate title, but he didn't respond other than the PDF. The attorney didn't sign off on the title, but there was some chicken scratch from some intermediate sale that fell through on the back of the title, which ruined it. Otherwise, I would have tried to get that "bill of sale" long ago from the original owner like you said.

3509140C1104133100140D610 wrote:

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by J Mac on 05/10/23 at 19:32:52

The seller finally woke up. His paperwork is submitted over there after a couple snags, and he's supposedly going to have a title in his name in a couple weeks. I'm tired of seeing a Savage in my garage that I can't use. I'm cautiously optimistic.

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by J Mac on 06/09/23 at 21:53:30

A couple weeks turned into another month. I finally have the new seller title in hand over 6 months post-purchase. :D I hate UPS, but that's another story. I think my paperwork is now bulletproof, but I'll soon find out what nitpicking and obstructions Louisiana has in store for me.

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by TheSneeze on 06/10/23 at 07:23:51

My '87 I bought as a parts bike, wanting the front end only off of it for another project. Then when I saw a RYCA on the internet, I decided to build it up and make it a runner. The guy I bought it from gave me a shady bill of sale only. I didn't care at the time since it was only a "parts bike". Fast forward, and I took what I had to the Nevada DMV. After two clerks and a supervisor, my only option is to apply for a Bond Title. The vehicle has to remain on the Bond Title for 3 years, and during that time it cannot be sold outside of the state of Nevada. Once the 3 years expires, I will get a clean title. The DMV office cannot issue the Bond Title, I was given a different office number to call and start the process. I haven't acted on it yet... so I don't know how much the bond will cost at this time.

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by J Mac on 06/10/23 at 12:32:59

I can't tell you how much I wished we had a bonded title option in this state. I would have gone for that in a second. Surprise, surprise, the seller screwed up the brand-new title by putting his name and address where MINE was supposed to go. You'd think a lawyer would know how to fill out legal documents. Thankfully, the auto title office weren't jerks about it and did a hand correction along with an affidavit form from me. My saga is over. I have the license plate.

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by Dave on 06/10/23 at 13:14:30

4E455D7B4945474F240 wrote:

My saga is over. I have the license plate.

Woo Hoo!

Take the title folks that helped you a box of cookies for not being jerks.

I did that the last time they helped me out, and they are very helpful since then!

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by LANCER on 06/10/23 at 13:29:10

Making friends makes everything smoother later.
Yep.

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by Ruttly on 06/10/23 at 16:00:19

Today they call that “Paying it Ahead”

Just buttering someone’s bread

Food has no boundaries

Breaking bread builds powerful , lasting bonds , even beyond language barriers

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by LANCER on 06/10/23 at 16:38:00

Showing care and kindness is universally understood.

Title: Re: Title Blues (vent)
Post by J Mac on 06/11/23 at 07:03:52

Good advice Dave, Lancer and Ruttly. Thanks.