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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Shift Points
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Message started by ThumperPaul on 03/22/23 at 12:25:43

Title: Shift Points
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/22/23 at 12:25:43

Hey Savages. Since 99% of us don’t have a tach and shifting by ear and feel, what speed do you typically shift when just putting around? Me: 2nd at 15-18, 3rd at 25-30, 4th at 40-45, 5th at 50ish. If I’m getting on it, about 27, 45, 60 and then I have to chill and hit 5th at 70 before maxing out 4th. When I say get on it, I might be a little early, but I do get a nice bump when I upshift to the next gear. What about y’all? Really just a curiosity question. Or, if somebody has a tach, what speed would you be going if shifting at 4,000rpm per gear? Interested to hear responses.

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by Dave on 03/23/23 at 04:47:52

My tires sizes and gearing are all different than stock - so mph numbers can't be used as a suggestion for shift points.

The Savage single cylinder engine is a low performance design, and it doesn't need to be revved to make power. The engine makes a lot of torque at low rpm - that is the advantage of a big single cylinder over a multi-cylinder engine. As you accelerate you can feel the torque begin to drop off in the upper rpm's....and that is the signal that it is time to shift to a lower gear.

On my rides in the rural roads where I live I ride at speeds between 40-60 mph...the engine is between 3,000 and 4,000 rpm for most of my ride. I can ride all day and never use more than half throttle, as I find the corners the fun part of the ride and blasting down the straight sections isn't common for me.

Here is a video of MM, Stewmills and I riding the Tail of the Dragon. It is pretty typical of the rides that I go on, as the roads in Kentucky that I ride are curvy like this but with longer straight sections between curves. The torque of the Savage engine allows me to ride with very little shifting - really tight curves might require dropping down 1 gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu-2kNjUHsE&t=328s

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu-2kNjUHsE&t=328s[/media]

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/23/23 at 05:12:16

That’s awesome, Dave! Beautiful country! Thanks for sharing! Totally agree about our bikes being torquey low rpm thumpers! And riding “with” the bike around in the curves instead of being taken for a ride by the bike is what I really like about the bike (especially at my age). I’m like you - most of my riding is enjoyed lazily cruising around 45-50. I’ll often just hang in 4th gear rather than dropping the rpm’s by hitting 5th (only to have to knock it back down into 4th for something or get some grunt).

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by LANCER on 03/23/23 at 05:59:51

When I was in HS, 16-17 years old, I worked all summer to buy my first bike, a new Suzuki 150 2-stroke twin. 3 years later as I prepared to “Go Army” I went to Olathe KS to visit my brother before going active duty, where he told me about this flat track racer that was for sale at a tiny local shop that just opened. It as an old house with bikes throughout the rooms, no maintenance area, just tinker in place. Among the interesting collection of bikes were the BSA Goldstar flat tracker and an Indian flathead chopper. Every bike there looked great. I took a test drive on the Goldstar, told the dude I wanted it, went to make arrangements, and took it home. I’ve been a big single fan ever since.
The Goldie cost me $800.
Completely rebuilt exactly at it was raced including the Ceriani forks & 1.5” Amal GP carb, (except for the tank, fiberglass 5 gal road racing tank, silver w/black pin striping). The carb had no idle circuit.
0-110 mph was “Hang On”.

I believe this was a consignment shop, the Goldstar was, and it would account for the excellent variety of bikes he had gathered together.

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/23/23 at 06:13:00

Thank for sharing, Lancer! Great story! You stole that Gold star! Did you sell it? That’s vintage! Edit/Update: I just read the Gold Star is coming back! It’ll be more refined than the 50s version. BSA was also taken over by an Indian company, so it won’t be a British bike anymore technically (same as Royal Enfield). It’ll roll out overseas first and they need to figure out dealerships in the US. One of the photo captions said, “will attract senior citizens at gas stations.” I thought that was good.

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by LANCER on 03/23/23 at 12:59:11

I’m waiting for it to show up. It looks pretty good and does have the styling que’s of the original Goldstar, but at 437 lb/470 fueled & 70 mpg, the range is about 180 mi. BUT, the engine is built by Rotax, 652 cc, 100x83mm, 45 hp @6500 rpm,40.6 lbft torque @ 4000 rpm, with 11.5:1 CR., according to the factory, Brembo brakes, liquid cooling and FI. A bit on the heavy side but it’s got some muscle to push it around.
Cycle world said it’s good for 100mph, and maybe a bit more if in a hard tuck.
I’m interested.

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by LANCER on 03/23/23 at 13:13:21

7448554D5045527041554C200 wrote:

I did sell it years later to a dude in SoCal who was a retired Goldie racer and wanted one to rebuild in his retirement. He sent me photos of the bike when he finished it. He built it back in Clubman’s trim. Looked like a new bike.
It was hard times and I sold it to make a house payment. It needed a good bit of work. A couple of the drive gears for the magneto were cracked and the magneto needed to be replaced by a mag-Dyno so a battery and lighting could be added. It was an extremely strong engine and was a DELIGHT to kick start. It encouraged you to be efficient with your starting technique. [ch128526]

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/23/23 at 15:55:16

I can so appreciate that!! You’re a good man! I want to call you friend bro! Have an amazing evening!

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by LANCER on 03/23/23 at 15:59:33

794558405D485F7D4C58412D0 wrote:

I can so appreciate that!! You’re a good man! I want to call you friend bro! Have an amazing evening!

Well, thank you.
It’s my pleasure.

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/23/23 at 16:04:26

It is very interesting! I like the old school styling. The clean power, brakes, and smoothness of a rotax in a thumper! The mass isn’t bad and would definitely help on 70mph US highways.

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by LANCER on 03/23/23 at 17:55:02

7D415C44594C5B79485C45290 wrote:

It is very interesting! I like the old school styling. The clean power, brakes, and smoothness of a rotax in a thumper! The mass isn’t bad and would definitely help on 70mph US highways.

Another note from the Cycle World article is that it “easily” cruises at 80mph @ 5000 rpm. That a stretch for the Savage. My Savage will cruise at 80 but the oil consumption is noteworthy and needs watching.

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by ohiomoto on 03/23/23 at 19:58:38

Sometimes it's just-tooling-around-shifting. Other times it's hard-throttle-end-short-shifting. It might be rev-it-till-it-rattles-shifting another time.

I guess it just depends on my mood. I just figured everyone rides with a variety of styles and techniques.

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/24/23 at 05:02:45

7F78797F7D7F647F100 wrote:

Bwahahaha “Rev-it-till-it-rattles”! My technique back in my 2-stroke dirt bike days!

Lancer - I’ve only hit about 75 for 30 seconds on the Savage. White-knuckled, buzzing, feet being blown up from the pegs, and it felt like the front wheel was catching more air than ground. Exhilarating feeling for maybe 15 seconds, but not sustainable for me.

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by LANCER on 03/24/23 at 09:52:05

I’ve found the LS650 to be a stable platform, even up to 100mph, assuming everything is working well on the bike.

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/24/23 at 10:02:39

0E030C0107105055620 wrote:

I’ve found the LS650 to be a stable platform, even up to 100mph, assuming everything is working well on the bike.

Dang! It is pretty stable, but also really light. This old man won’t be getting on any Houston highways with cars and trucks doing 80+mph! I’ll find another way. My glory days are over!

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by LANCER on 03/24/23 at 10:18:08

A rare speed test like that is done on a long, straight, good country road without any side roads or homes, so no interference.

I agree about riding in heavy winds on a light weight bike, it’s a wrestling match and unsteady feeling.

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/24/23 at 10:57:29

3F323D3036216164530 wrote:

Glad to hear that!. I'm in the northwest suburbs of Houston and they have recently completed some nice new roads that I am totally eating up. Very little traffic, no side streets, and not many have discovered it yet. It's exactly what you describe and smooth virgin concrete!

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by Anameofsomesort on 03/27/23 at 07:34:46

That all seems awfully early for those shift points. I find first at half throttle on my stock 98 will get me comfortably to 20 mph. From there I normally go 20-30 for second, 30-45 for third, 45-60 for fourth, and 60+ for fifth.

Title: Re: Shift Points
Post by ThumperPaul on 03/27/23 at 10:06:22

1F303F333B31382D31333B2D312C2A5E0 wrote:

We’re in the same ballpark. My usual riding is tamer than yours generally unless I’m trying to get out of a pack of cars and trying to keep myself visible (and heard, lol). I’ve got a Jardine pipe and I can make some noise if I want to!