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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Welp, my exhaust fell apart! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1678237942 Message started by och on 03/07/23 at 17:12:22 |
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Title: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/07/23 at 17:12:22 And I have noone to blame by myself, lol. So back in 2016 when I first got my S40, which was my first bike, one of the first mods I installed a Dyna muffler. I tig welded it to the stock header, but the connection between the two pipes looked sloppy, so I decided to wrap that section with heat wrap. Turns out it was a mistake. Today I was riding, and mid ride the exhaust started rattling and popping. Look down, and sure enough, the connection rusted and separated, even ripped the heat wrap. I guess the heat wrap was staying wet all the time since I keep the bike outdoors, which caused the rust to slowly eat through the weld and the sleeves. I can't take a photo of the damage right now since my phone camera is broken, but here is the "before" photo of the bike. Either way, I will try to deal with it next week sometime, will grind off the rusted section and weld on a new section. Going to measure the diameter and try to use stainless pipe to avoid future rust. That being said, right now the bike sounds awesome with whats essentially a straight pipe, and I have not noticed any performance drop other than the crazy amount of popping on decel. I am almost contemplating doing a straight pipe now. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/07/23 at 17:18:39 You can kind of see in this photo the connection. I don't have any better photo right now. http://https://i.imgur.com/AJEUUAb.jpg |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by J Mac on 03/07/23 at 17:55:08 That's the color scheme of my 2012. I don't know if I'm going to mess with a Dyna muffler. I might leave the stock one on, given this will be a low miles bike. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by pg on 03/07/23 at 18:14:47 The baffle blew out of my dyna at some point. The rumbles and backfires give it some character; however, it is pretty much a straight pipe. I have to wear ear plugs or it is really unpleasant. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/07/23 at 18:26:50 2328301624282A22490 wrote:
The Dyna sounds much much better than stock, totally worth it. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/07/23 at 18:27:24 6275737F7060120 wrote:
Yeah, thats what I fear, it might be fun for a while but will get annoying quick. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by pg on 03/07/23 at 18:39:31 Unpleasant is really an understatement., it will likely cause some hearing loss. The dyna really has a nice note. I ordered a pair on ebay and looked forward to putting one on. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by J Mac on 03/08/23 at 16:47:17 I know this has been covered extensively, but did YOU personally rejet because of the Dyna muffler? ----- 636F640C0 wrote:
The Dyna sounds much much better than stock, totally worth it. [/quote] |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by J Mac on 03/08/23 at 16:48:05 Did you rejet after putting the Dyna on? -------- 3126202C2333410 wrote:
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by pg on 03/08/23 at 17:23:45 I did, the main jet went up a bit. Here is a thread with a lot of good information. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1309246277 Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by SpamyToo on 03/08/23 at 17:24:31 Sorry to hear that. I had put a post up before about pipe wrap being a ticking time bomb. I had a pipe totally disintegrate because the wrap. The rust went crazy, and the contained heat melted some of the metal. Yeah the carb was a bit out of balance then, but the wrap was the catalyst that ruined that pipe. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/08/23 at 17:33:08 69627A5C6E626068030 wrote:
I have not. I have zero experience with carburetors other than remembering my grandpa curse the carb on his ZAZ968 needing repairs every 50 miles or so. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/08/23 at 17:34:11 5C7F6E62765B60600F0 wrote:
Yep. I am yet to take it off to assess the full extent of the damage, it wont surprise me if I'll be in for a new header pipe. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/09/23 at 15:33:42 http://https://i.imgur.com/MzCzAit.jpg http://https://i.imgur.com/Xn6uMzL.jpg |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by pg on 03/09/23 at 16:00:48 Did that break at the front of the muffler? The header pipe goes in about 2 inches. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by pg on 03/09/23 at 16:05:03 3B2C2A2629394B0 wrote:
The new to me dyna mufflers came in. I cleaned up the old header, put a fresh coat of bbq paint, a fresh wrap, and installed the new muffler. Incidentally, the old dyna muffler was a straight pipe. Literally, nothing in there............ Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/09/23 at 17:03:00 544345494656240 wrote:
I think I put a sleeve over the dyna muffler and the header, and the sleeve broke. I did a crappy job welding last time, I'll do much better this time, pics soon. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by Dave on 03/11/23 at 04:33:20 Dyna mufflers on the Savage work well, look and sound good, and they are pretty easy to find. For some reason they do not last forever on the Savage - the inside eventually comes apart. They often rattle or the muffler flow gets blocked when the inside is broken. If you have ever followed a Dyna muffler Savage at night - you can see the inside perforated pipe glowing red hot.....eventually the heat takes it's toll. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by pg on 03/11/23 at 06:02:44 I replaced mine a couple days ago and it was completely hollow inside. Is there some way of replacing the baffle? Perhaps a spark arrestor? Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/11/23 at 08:27:31 43787562737F646279717C63100 wrote:
Interesting. Mine didn't fall apart, its the sloppy weld that I made fell apart. This being said, I don't have the original muffler anymore, or if I do I have no idea where it may be. However the original header I believe is stainless steel, at least the outer pipe. Stainless steel turns blue from excess heat, and when welding stainless and it turns blue its a sign of excess heat as well. I actually own a machine that removes blue/black burn marks from stainless welds. Apparently not only it is a cosmetic cleanup, but it prevents further corrosion when the discoloration is removed. https://youtu.be/UL-wEdWYpxk However, the Harley muffler is most certainly not stainless, it chrome plate steel. The chrome on mine is pitting and peeling real bad, and the header is blue, so I'm probably running too hot. I did not rejet my carb after I installed the muffler, as I have no experience with carbs, and I don't know anyone good enough to do it. See pic from a while back. The muffler was nearly perfect when I originally bought it in 2016, there was maybe 3k miles total on the bike when this picture was taken, and the muffler and header are already looking like this. In any case. I have already bought a new (used) Dyna muffler in near perfect condition. I will use a stainless sleeve to slip over the tips on the header and the muffler,weld them together, and sand to a smooth finish. I'll also try to hit the header with the stainless cleaning machine to see if it works. http://https://i.imgur.com/54p8LXG.jpg |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by Dave on 03/11/23 at 09:06:10 The Savage header is chrome plated steel...not stainless. They rust when left outside for extended periods. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/11/23 at 10:08:13 0F34392E3F33282E353D302F5C0 wrote:
Must be a much higher chrome plating compared to barley. I suspected it wasnt stainless because the tip where it was welded to the harley muffler has rusted, but never investigated thoroughly. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/18/23 at 16:43:34 You guys are not going to believe what just happened. I bought a new Dyna muffler (used but in near perfect condition). Brought the bike to my shop, we took apart the exhaust, and unbolted the old muffler and the header pipe. http://https://i.imgur.com/cJ9m6xI.jpg http://https://i.imgur.com/BfgRDOT.jpg I gave the header pipe a good clean up with a pipe sander to make it nice and shiny. Then I got a 1.75" ID stainless steel sleeve, marked everything out making sure the muffler bracket aligns with the mounting bracket on the bolt, and welded the new muffler on. Then I had the welds ground smooth and sanded with the pipe sander to give it a nice shine. Just look at how awesome it looks now! http://https://i.imgur.com/r50HYCT.jpg And it was time to put it back on the bike and go for a ride, right? WRONG! Who can spot where I screwed up? I am so frustrated and pissed off at myself and the world right now, its unreal! |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by pg on 03/18/23 at 17:07:20 Beautiful work, sorry about the collar. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/18/23 at 17:33:11 :D Back on the chopping block it went, cut brand new weld to put on the collar. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/18/23 at 19:46:39 And all done! http://https://i.imgur.com/WJEpCbh.jpg |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by Ruttly on 03/18/23 at 23:09:12 Nice job ! |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/19/23 at 05:44:31 Unfortunately the clean look like this was not going to last. I rode home from my shop last night, which is only about 10-15 miles, and I already got discoloration. I cleaned all the rust from the header using my Metabo pipe sander with a fleece belt, which gave the chrome a nice brushed finish, but there were few spots where chrome is completely gone from the rust, so I sanded to the bare steel, especially the very end of the header where the old connection was. http://https://i.imgur.com/weMBpis.jpg The new Harley muffler is still shiny, and I expect it to last like this for a while, but the header has already turned blue/yellow from the heat. The areas where the chrome is going and were sanded to the bare steel, are turning blue, and they will likely rust once exposed to rain. And the stainless steel sleeve, which is just a schedule 10 stainless pipe, is also turning blue from the heat. It is normal for stainless to turn blue from the heat, but its also a sign that the carb needs tuning. If there is anyone in NY/NJ/CT areas willing to properly tune my carb for a fee, let me know please. I'll ride to you. http://https://i.imgur.com/pFbl88l.jpg http://https://i.imgur.com/f5yqtqq.jpg http://https://i.imgur.com/LCyiwg3.jpg |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/19/23 at 05:49:16 I can probably use a chrome heat shield to conceal the connection and hide the discolored sleeve and the area of the header that is stripped of chrome, but then I am afraid it will trap moisture and accelerate corrosion. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by pg on 03/19/23 at 06:58:37 He is what I have on mine and everything worked fine for almost 10 years. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000I5AR5K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by verslagen1 on 03/19/23 at 07:14:55 You can probably go up a jet size or 2 until it goes golden but it won't stay clear what's your jet size now? and mpg? |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/19/23 at 08:55:18 It is the way it came from the factory, i never did anything after changing the muffler. No other performance mods. I usually get between 40 and 50 mpg. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by verslagen1 on 03/19/23 at 09:52:55 you should be getting 50 or better I did get better mpg going to a 150 from the stock 145 |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/19/23 at 14:37:59 170413120D0006040F50610 wrote:
Well, I am in NYC, so I spend a good amount of time in traffic, and if i get out on empty roads I run it like a sport bike. I'm also 240-250lb, so that doesn't help with the mileage. I've never messed with a carb, so I am not comfortably trying to rejet it myself. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by LANCER on 03/19/23 at 17:20:55 So you’ve only changed the main jet from a 145 to a 150, but no change to the pilot jet or white spacer on the needle ? |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/19/23 at 18:51:12 3C313E3335226267500 wrote:
I haven't changed anything yet, running stock carb with the Harley muffler. I did buy a jet kit from you years ago when I first bought the bike, but I never got around to installing it, and I have no idea what I did with it. Can you sell me another one and recommend the right settings for my bike and location? I am in NYC. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by LANCER on 03/20/23 at 03:38:10 PM sent |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by Dave on 03/20/23 at 14:05:01 Once the chrome has been sanded off - the header is going to rust once it is exposed to moisture. I have recently painted a Savage header and the exhaust system for my wood splitter with Cerakote in Glacier Black. The stuff is incredibly tough, and it can withstand temperatures up to 1,800 degrees! It sprays incredibly easy - coverage is so much better than normal paint. The only downside is that the air cure requires 2 weeks of cure time before being exposed to heat. It comes in a lot of colors....the 4 ounce tester bottle is enough to paint a header about 4 times! A cheap Harbor Freight HVLP paint gun sprays it just fine. https://www.cerakote.com/shop/cerakote-coating?finishes=cera_1800 |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/20/23 at 17:33:04 Yep, but I really don't want to paint mine. I'll keep an eye on the rust, if it becomes really bad, I may just buy a new header. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by buster6315 on 03/20/23 at 20:02:10 I vote for installing a heat shield of some type. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by jacobg98 on 03/22/23 at 09:44:23 Has anyone put additional baffles in a Dyna/Sportster muffler? How much do they help? I picked up a set of sportster mufflers, and I love the deep tone, but holy cow are they loud. I don't mind when I'm riding it, but my neighbors might shoot me. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by verslagen1 on 03/22/23 at 09:56:35 in stock form, HD muffs have a plate in the middle. if you can look straight thru the center, that plate has been removed. you can replace that plate there are posts somewhere |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by jacobg98 on 03/22/23 at 10:11:22 Yeah, there's no plate in the middle. I'll look into that. Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/22/23 at 10:13:26 Looks like you bough one with the baffle plate removed, essentially making it a straight pipe. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by verslagen1 on 03/22/23 at 10:47:11 I think this one talks about the plate... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1514049876 |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/22/23 at 18:23:27 Does the Dyna muffler have only one block plate or two? I have a Yamaha Star 950, which has two block plates in the exhaust, I drilled one of them out to get a bit more sound but without being obnoxious with a straight pipe. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by jacobg98 on 03/22/23 at 22:05:38 I read through the thread and looked a little more thoroughly inside my muffler. I don’t see any remanent of a plate. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/23/23 at 08:16:35 I figure I can't control the discoloration of the header pipe, therefore I coated it with high heat clear coat. Even if it keeps discoloring, at least the clear coat should protect it from rust. Lancer is sending me a new jet kit, so I'll re-jet the carb hopefully to make the engine run cooler, and I hope that will keep the chrome muffler from peeling like my old one. And I'll get a small shield to cover the connection between the header and the muffler. I am split on whether I should get a chrome shield, or a black/carbon one to make the transition between the satin header pipe and the polished muffler less apparent. http://https://i.imgur.com/J2ltLwC.jpg |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by LANCER on 03/23/23 at 12:14:55 Black carbon for sure. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by DragBikeMike on 03/23/23 at 14:03:47 Sanitary install on the muffler OCH. By any chance did you look in the inlet side before you installed the header pipe? Was ther a honey comb in there. A honey comb indicates a catalyst, which will most likely run extremely hot on your carbureted LS. Jacobg98, I don’t think your picture is a Harley muffler. It looks to be some sort of after market muffler. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by jacobg98 on 03/23/23 at 14:19:56 DragBikeMike, I guess its possible that its aftermarket, but they would have done a good job making it look stock. The guy I bought it from had just pulled it off an 03 Sportster. It even has the EPA information stamped on the side. Weird. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/23/23 at 14:51:43 06000F73717672420 wrote:
I did not look, would that be right where the header connects to the engine? I dont remember seeing a honeycomb in there, but I don't think our bikes ever came with a catalyst? |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/23/23 at 14:53:32 636E616C6A7D3D380F0 wrote:
I am thinking I'll get this one. https://www.amazon.com/Design-Engineering-010901-Titanium-Flexible/dp/B079SLSYTG The price is a bit steep, which is pissing me off. >:( |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/23/23 at 14:59:48 There was a time when I was considering fabricating my own header out out schedule 40 stainless pipe. I do a lot of railing fabrication in my shop, we work with stainless pipe all the time, so I figured I could make the header. So glad I haven't gone this route, stainless would just turn blue right away and all that hard work would be wasted. I was wondering why manufacturers use chrome plated steel pipes instead of just doing polished stainless steel, which is far more durable - i guess its due to discoloration. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by verslagen1 on 03/23/23 at 15:37:51 SS turning blue doesn't affect it's durability. SS develops a protective oxide coat naturally and it doesn't matter if it's blue or shiny. The stock pipe is plain steel and rusts, the outer pipe is also plain steel but chromed. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/23/23 at 15:59:54 706374756A6761636837060 wrote:
Correct, but it would be nice to have it all polished up and shiny to last for a long time. On my Star 950 the header pipes and the muffler are like new, retaining mirror polish without any discoloration. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by LANCER on 03/23/23 at 16:04:12 A genuine Harley muffler has the Harley name stamped into the steel. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by jacobg98 on 03/23/23 at 17:17:17 Yep. It has Harley-Davidson stamped into the steel. It specifies that it’s for the XL883/1200, part number 65605-97. Is it possible that someone replaced the insides? |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by LANCER on 03/23/23 at 17:45:42 Wouldn’t think so, but ….. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by zipidachimp on 03/24/23 at 01:27:44 took my blued chrome header pipe to a hotrod shop and had it ceramic coated silver. Problem solved forever ! $50 ! Cheers! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by Dave on 03/24/23 at 03:35:03 2F24262A27227C7D450 wrote:
No....but they can take a piece of pipe and a hammer and drive the little steel plug out of the pipe. There is a thread where I listed an engine freeze plug that can be driven into the Dyna muffler to replace a missing/damaged or drilled plate......it appears it is a 1-1/4" plug that is required. It is not uncommon for Harley owners to modify the plate to make it louder. The little round plug is supposed to be located in that space between the perforated holes in the center pipe.....the exhaust is supposed to go out the first set of holes and into the outer shell, then come out of the shell and back into the center pipe in the second set of holes. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1514049876/0 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1465527646/5#5 |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/27/23 at 10:13:47 I am anticipating my jet kit to hopefully arrive today, I already have everything apart. What size pilot and main jets should I use? Also, can someone explain the white space mod a little? |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by Dave on 03/28/23 at 04:09:08 7D717A120 wrote:
My "Go To" jetting is a #150 main jet and a #50 Pilot Jet. Once in a while a #52.5 Pilot Jet is needed to get the idle fuel/air mix correct. Warm the bike up completely and while holding the bike upright lower the idle speed down - then turn the fuel mixture screw to achieve the smoothest idle. If you have turn the screw in the bike should begin to run poorly...then back the screw out until it runs smoothly....then turn the idle speed back up to 1,100rpm. If you can turn the fuel screw out more than 3 turns and the engine still runs smoothly...a #52.5 pilot might be better. If you can turn the idle mixture screw all the way in and the engine still runs smoothly - the pilot jet is too big. (The idle speed needs to be set low while making this adjustment....at 1,100 rpm the carb is allowing fuel to flow out the needle jet and will not allow you to make accurate fuel/air screw adjustment). The white spacer pushes the slide needle down by the thickness of the spacer, and the stock setting is a bit too lean. By cutting the white spacer in half the needle is allowed to move upward a bit and that allows a bit more fuel to flow. You can use 3 steel machine screw washers instead of cutting down the spacer - you can't use brass washers as the outside diameter is too big....only the steel ones will fit. |
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Title: Re: Welp, my exhaust fell apart! Post by och on 03/28/23 at 04:49:23 0D363B2C3D312A2C373F322D5E0 wrote:
My "Go To" jetting is a #150 main jet and a #50 Pilot Jet. Once in a while a #52.5 Pilot Jet is needed to get the idle fuel/air mix correct. Warm the bike up completely and while holding the bike upright lower the idle speed down - then turn the fuel mixture screw to achieve the smoothest idle. If you have turn the screw in the bike should begin to run poorly...then back the screw out until it runs smoothly....then turn the idle speed back up to 1,100rpm. If you can turn the fuel screw out more than 3 turns and the engine still runs smoothly...a #52.5 pilot might be better. If you can turn the idle mixture screw all the way in and the engine still runs smoothly - the pilot jet is too big. (The idle speed needs to be set low while making this adjustment....at 1,100 rpm the carb is allowing fuel to flow out the needle jet and will not allow you to make accurate fuel/air screw adjustment). The white spacer pushes the slide needle down by the thickness of the spacer, and the stock setting is a bit too lean. By cutting the white spacer in half the needle is allowed to move upward a bit and that allows a bit more fuel to flow. You can use 3 steel machine screw washers instead of cutting down the spacer - you can't use brass washers as the outside diameter is too big....only the steel ones will fit. [/quote] Thank you Dave. I haven't drilled out the plug that covers the mixture screw, it may be a good time to do so. What size are the stock jets? I assume they are smaller than #150 and #50? I am in NYC, which are only 30 feet above sea level, but sometimes I go to the mountain - just last Sunday I took the bike to the Pocono mountains where the elevation is over 2,000 feet. At times the bike felt weird, going over 70mph giving it just slightly more gas the RPMs jumped up immediately but the bike was barely acceleration. My only mod is the Dyna muffler. |
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