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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Justified shooting /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1673646631 Message started by Eegore on 01/13/23 at 13:50:31 |
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Title: Justified shooting Post by Eegore on 01/13/23 at 13:50:31 A person is justified in using force against another person when and to the degree he or she reasonably believes force is immediately necessary to protect him against the other person's use of force https://www.yahoo.com/news/armed-houston-taqueria-customer-justified-153420736.html We had a similar situation on CO where an armed US citizen with no criminal record fatally shot another US citizen in the act of committing an armed robbery. The human committing the robbery was also shot from behind. The amount of people that said this is illegal is concerning to me. It reminds me of a guy that came to the medical center that was shot multiple times in the back. He was walking backwards into an apartment, with a pistol pointed over his shoulder, telling the the inhabitants that it was against the law to shoot him in the back. They disagreed. |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/13/23 at 14:40:16 Jakkass got shot. Dead. He was terrorizing a group of people, waving a gun around, taking their stuff. No way to know if the guy was going to just walk out or turn around and see how many he could shoot. Society is improved by his removal. Gun,real or not, apparently looked real enough to facilitate the crime. I don't have a problem with the Walk over, pump one in the punkin, return stuff to the people, walk out. Twenty first century Lone Ranger stuff. |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by pg on 01/13/23 at 16:42:28 You will understand what the issue is when you see the entire video. No one will have a problem with the first 4 shots. He unloads another 4 rounds, still no issue. This is where it gets complicated. The perp is down and it doesn't appear he is a threat. The good samaritan takes the perps weapon and while he is face down, shoots him in the head. A Soros backed DA will run with this............... This video outlines pretty well. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAx9srqTFIs[/media] Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/13/23 at 18:00:08 A Soros backed DA will run with this............... Guaranteed! When the people get tired of the idea that retribution dealt out by The People is supposed to be just like the expectations put on the cops, and the cops are not There to solve the problem, this is what happens. Real Life is Not a play in a football game. Just because the ball carrier is down doesn't mean the guy spearing him in the back with his helmet means a fifteen yard unnecessary roughness or late hit penalty. When juries figure out how much better society will be when stomping the life out of criminals becomes common enough to dissuade criminals from trying it,crime will drop, dramatically. Juries need to support the People dealing with crime. Go ahead, run with it. Drop every bit of the context of this event and pretend I'm saying Rufus should investigate the unsolved crime and determine who dunnit and then go mete out justice. |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by Eegore on 01/13/23 at 21:23:42 "The good samaritan takes the perps weapon and while he is face down, shoots him in the head." I had not seen this. If so then it is in violation of most laws. The structure of these types of laws slowly evolved from the days when justice was metered out by the general public. It's pretty well documented, and when I saw what people would do to "criminals" like torture them for days, I can see how laws started coming into play that restricted the continued "stopping of a crime" for hours or days after the criminal was disarmed and captured. If we feel that law abiding citizens should be able to continue a crime mitigation process after the criminal is disabled/unconscious/immobile or no longer a threat, then we need to lobby for those laws to change. |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by WebsterMark on 01/14/23 at 06:07:12 If a guy’s waving a gun around, threatening to shoot people and he turns his back to you so he can threaten the others in the room and you’re armed, I’m not convicting you. |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by Serowbot on 01/14/23 at 07:05:52 Once he has the guys gun, the imagined threat is over. |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by WebsterMark on 01/14/23 at 10:12:26 1) imagined threat? 2) I didn’t see the whole video. What happened? |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by Serowbot on 01/14/23 at 11:42:21 1) imagined because the gun was a toy 2) 4 shots in rapid fire, the guy goes down... four more rapid shots standing directly over the body,... then he picks up the perps gun... and plugs him again in head. I'd say that last shot crosses a line. The second four are questionable (the guy was down instantly and appeared immobile, and was no longer in possession of the gun a few feet away) |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/14/23 at 13:35:28 imagined because the gun was a toy.. The fear was real. Robbery committed using a fake gun? Armed robbery. Receive the money for a baggie of drugs But the Drug was just foot powder? Jail for selling drugs. Being Wrong doesn't remove the Right to self defense. Feeling like your life is in danger, even if later it's shown that was incorrect, if you hurt or kill someone trying to get out of the situation where you're terrified and convinced that you're going to get killed or seriously injured ,you can avoid prosecution. The people who relinquished their possessions were not Imagining a threat. A man was in their faces, threatening them. Too bad someone Didn't notice the gun was not real. It would have changed the outcome. The perp would likely still be alive, handcuffed to a bed, recovering from a near fatal beating. It's not a football game. The whistle blows, play is over. We hold cops to that idea. Dude made a call. Do citizens get qualified immunity? No? More than one reason to be certain the punk was dead. Society is improved, and the man who shot him won't be getting sued by the punk. What is he guilty of? Mistreating a dead body? Was he going to survive ? Be interesting to know what the autopsy says.. It's Gonna be interesting if he answers the question Why did you shoot him after you took his gun? |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by Serowbot on 01/14/23 at 14:42:13 6A757374696E5F6F5F67757932000 wrote:
Exactly |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by WebsterMark on 01/14/23 at 14:42:48 The fact it was a toy doesn’t matter. No one knew that at the time. I’d have to see the video, but I’m frankly sick of crime. I’d be fine if someone started firing and smash and dashers. I mean, at some point, don’t criminals need to be more afraid than they are right now? Doesn’t seem to be a lot of fear. |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/14/23 at 16:37:07 4355425F47525F44300 wrote:
Exactly [/quote] I Get what you're saying. Did you read what I said? All of it? Grock the nuance? Seems like you can't envision it Not being a big offense. I can. And how many cops walk after doing as bad or worse, because of Qualified Immunity. Do we hold the People to the same standard as the police? The standard the cops are asked to meet? Or the one they actually meet? The guy should have a medal pinned on him on the courthouse steps. More of this means a drop in crime. TuffShit, start trouble and wind up dead. The man didn't Have access to the punk's legal history, but, as it works out, in any society, the punk needed dead, society is improved by his absence and the more of that that happens the less likely the criminals are to try it. |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by pg on 01/14/23 at 16:46:57 When I got the CCP we discussed multiple scenarios including this one. When someone is no longer a threat your right to use deadly force is obsolescent. We were told if you use your weapon at that point, be prepared to justify whatever you did to your peers in the jury. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/14/23 at 17:15:12 6B7C7A7679691B0 wrote:
I understand that. And I understand how easy it is to pretend that is always something that is supposed to be easy enough to do. Trained Cops can't always contain their emotions. And they have Qualified Immunity, which Occasionally does not protect them. The ball is down Whistle blows I get it.. Reality isn't always like that. It's just SumDood,, What happens when there is Nobody to save you and you either get CPR or die? The SumDood who happens by has only seen it on TV and he busts a Coupla ribs and you live? Wanna sue him for not getting it perfect? Medal Courthouse steps |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by pg on 01/14/23 at 17:28:59 What was really interesting are the carry and self defense laws. The carry laws, duty to inform, duty to retreat, and actual weapon laws vary greatly across state lines. When I travel I have to double check some of those..... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/14/23 at 18:28:11 6C7375726F6859695961737F34060 wrote:
I understand that. And I understand how easy it is to pretend that is always something that is supposed to be easy enough to do. Trained Cops can't always contain their emotions. And they have Qualified Immunity, which Occasionally does not protect them. The ball is down Whistle blows I get it.. Reality isn't always like that. It's just SumDood,, What happens when there is Nobody to save you and you either get CPR or die? The SumDood who happens by has only seen it on TV and he busts a Coupla ribs and you live? Wanna sue him for not getting it perfect? Medal Courthouse steps [/quote] It's not like I don't understand. I understand. Rules.. People Made the rules. Maybe they sound great. Excellent standard to aspire to. The untrained are just that. It's The SumDood who happened to be there. Maybe trying to sanitize a situation where you just had to kill someone isn't so easy. At least have the conversation, people. |
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Title: Re: Justified shooting Post by Eegore on 01/18/23 at 07:14:06 This is rather uncommon to hear from a criminal's family, especially the mother: "If you had to kill him, I can deal with that. I can come to grips with that. He did something wrong, I understand that, but for him to be shot four times in the back leaving and when he falls down and he shoots him four more times. He abused him." Typically I would expect to hear how he was a "good boy" that got "caught up" in the "wrong crowd" and that a "toy" is not a weapon. Considering he dumped a drink and threw the cup at him, she does have a point. |
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