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Message started by Eegore on 09/02/21 at 08:56:29

Title: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by Eegore on 09/02/21 at 08:56:29

Ted Cruz -

“This horrifying image encapsulates Joe Biden’s Afghanistan catastrophe. The Taliban hanging a man from an American Blackhawk helicopter. Tragic. Unimaginable.”

Donald Trump Jr. updates his Twitter banner to show a man being executed by hanging from a Blackhawk helicopter.

Actual video: Man is waving at the crowd as he goes over.

How hard is that? How hard is it to watch a 6 second video before claiming this nonsense that the Taliban is hanging people from helicopters?

Then to say it is US owned equipment is more lies. We don't own it, the operational older UH-60's were sold to Afghanistan years ago. As if everyone is so dense that they don't see a conflict with complaining about arms deals, then claiming they never happened.

Obviously this whole withdrawal is poorly handled in regards to getting everyone out. But why can't we use actual issues, like the CA students left behind instead of exaggeration and lies?

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/02/21 at 12:19:30

I didn't see the guy waving. I saw that a coupla days ago, but, to be fair, on the Kindle the whole Man was not big and clear enough to distinguish one leg from the other.. But his legs were not moving,, he was hanging quite a bit below the runner. Around twelve, maybe fifteen feet.

I couldn't see any movement.

Not all the weapons belonged to Afghanistan.
Not all were ours.
Now they are all in possession of the Taliban.

The phone call Biden made to the former president of Afghanistan?
Have you looked into that?
Sounds like everyone knew the Taliban would have control very quickly.

If you're leaving, get the Americans and allies out first.
If that requires more troops, do that.
But pulling troops without first getting the Soon to Be hostages out?

No excuse.
Don't even bother with
But Trump..

Everything Trump had working well got undone in short order.
And the deal Trump had working was conditional.
You guys screw up and we will bomb you into the stone age diplomacy..

The whole world is laughing at the weakness of America today.
Except for our allies, who got THEIR people out..

It's an embarrassment, it's so completely unthinkable..
Yeah Biden is going to get us back to a place of respect on the world stage.

Phhhht.
Hate Trump all you want,, none of this crap would have happened if he was in office.

This post is completely open. It's NOT aimed at E,,it's for everyone.. If you think it's Aimed at you, it is.
If it's something you would have said, you're welcome. Now you don't have to type it.

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by oldNslow on 09/02/21 at 13:48:40

What's unimaginable to me is that any one of those goat f**kers could actually fly a Blackhawk.

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by Serowbot on 09/02/21 at 14:10:45

They got a guy that can fly one...
It won't last one oil change.

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by Eegore on 09/02/21 at 14:19:58

What's unimaginable to me is that any one of those goat f**kers could actually fly a Blackhawk.

Some went through flight school in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Uzbekistan provided by the US and the UK.

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by oldNslow on 09/02/21 at 15:38:12

2707050D1007620 wrote:

Well, that turned out to be a brilliant idea.

Seeing as how we just gave them an Air Force starter kit.

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by Eegore on 09/02/21 at 19:46:34

Well, that turned out to be a brilliant idea.

Seeing as how we just gave them an Air Force starter kit.

It's an imperfect world. I am sure if the right people knew this would happen in exactly this way - as we do after it happened - then maybe other choices would have been made.

From my experience most everyone assumed the Taliban would end up with this stuff eventually. If the US doesn't want to be there forever, we have to make some sort of compromise and this type of stuff is part of that.

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/02/21 at 22:28:11

There is no justification for pulling out before they got innocents out.
That is not okay.
Total fail for Biden

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by oldNslow on 09/03/21 at 04:38:05

And there it is:

Quote:

I am sure if the right people knew this would happen in exactly this way - as we do after it happened - then maybe other choices would have been made.

I think it's becoming clear to anyone paying attention that the "right people" haven't been in charge of this - or much of anything else, for that matter, - for a good long while.

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by Eegore on 09/03/21 at 05:57:46

I think it's becoming clear to anyone paying attention that the "right people" haven't been in charge of this - or much of anything else, for that matter, - for a good long while.

I agree. The most successful withdrawal efforts were privately orchestrated by Contractors and ex-SF operators. This is how I would have done it to begin with but no POTUS, not even Trump would go that route because politics are still part of the game.

Looking at what Trump brought to the table I don't know how anyone, that looks, assesses a considerably different outcome.

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by oldNslow on 09/03/21 at 06:58:18

Quote:

Looking at what Trump brought to the table

Trump huh ?

He certainly isn't blameless; But there were four Presidents, two political parties, God only knows how many General Officers, and enough high level "intellegence" experts and assorted other top bureaucrats to populate a small city, responsible for this clusterf*ck, which began 20 years ago, not a couple of weeks or months ago.

My generation's war was Vietnam. I'll leave the question of whether we should have fought it at all for another time. But we did. And we f*cked that one up too.

Learn from experience? Not so much it seems.

Why? My fingers would fall off if I tried to type a list of all the reasons.
But I'll give you the big one.

There is no personal accountability, or personal consequences, for even the most extreme screw ups at the top level of our government.

It's taken over 200 years for our system to evolve to that point but here we are. Maybe someone a lot smarter than me can see a way to get back to something that works. I can't

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by Eegore on 09/03/21 at 08:04:14

"There is no personal accountability, or personal consequences, for even the most extreme screw ups at the top level of our government."

I agree.

"Trump huh ?"

Well that's the ongoing comparison. Trump would have done better versus Trump would have done worse. Truth is nobody can say, since this type of withdrawal process is unprecedented and nobody is going to say they would have done a worse job than Biden, then present evidence to support it. If you like Trump he would have done this better, if you don't he would have done it worse, but unless we are doing some quantum theorizing we simply can't say.

I think you have a good assessment that 2 decades of decision making led to this and no one Administration would be able to get us out reliably and completely safe in the timeframes that both Trump and Biden proposed.

If I were to break it down as simple as possible we needed more diverse organizations (contractors) and more time, not more bombs.

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/03/21 at 09:28:15

Pretending that since its impossible and unreasonable to expect Completely Safe is the the choices that we saw made were the best ones at the time isn't working.

Rather than send troops out to bring in American and allies, we abandoned them.
Since I'm wasting my time again I'm sure as Hell not explaining how walking away from the other base, Taliban releasing prisoners ,Biden trying to get their president to lie about how it's going,,

You people who support Biden really need to admit what a disaster

He

Joseph
Robinett
Biden

Made of this..

Stick your But Trump where the sun don't shine..

Absolutely NOT ONE FUKKING THING Trump had working
Was kept in place.

Only through Lies are you able to pretend Trump set up a withdrawal that would work so poorly.

Hey! Good News!

We got 90% of the Americans out!!

That is pretty Fukkin GOOD, considering

According to the mouthpieces of this administration

THEY DON'T KNOW HOW MANY AMERICANS ARE IN AFGHANISTAN..

Solve for X on That one..

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by Eegore on 09/03/21 at 10:04:33

Absolutely NOT ONE FUKKING THING Trump had working
Was kept in place.

This is fundamentally untrue. A number of staging parameters, physical inventories, staff placement and tangibles accountability remained unchanged.

Trump actually didn't get much done from his projected initiatives from what I can tell. maybe you can outline what Trump changed and how it worked. From my assessment the "working" stuff came from the ground, not from talking.

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by oldNslow on 09/03/21 at 10:47:08

Trump had a DOD, Joint Chiefs,an intelligence apparatus, and a senior military command staff that was actively sabotaging his initiatives to whatever extent they could without jeopardizing themselves.

Biden has a DOD, etc, who are actually attempting to follow his( or whomever is pulling his strings) orders because they are all in the same club he's in and they all know where their goodies come from.

In either case the folks that actually know what needs to be done and how to do it are out of the decision making loop, and they know if they don't toe the line anyway, their as*es are in a sling.

One Marine Lt Colonel resigned his commission, walked away from a 17 year career and his pension because he'd finally had enough of the bulls*it and refused to be part of it any more. Probably decided - and I'm saying this, not him - that fixing this from the inside wasn't even possible any more.

ONE GUY!! Out of how many thousands ? One!!

The cancerous tumor that the US government has become is inoperable and has metastasized.

The country is now in Hospice and the treatment going forward is merely palliative care.

You all have a nice day.

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by Serowbot on 09/03/21 at 13:18:17

But Trump knew all the best people, and was going to hire all the bestest experts ever...
How did he end up with his children and a bunch of indicted conspirators?...
PS (they weren't conspiring against him, they were conspiring with him)

Bad management... Bigly bad.

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by WebsterMark on 09/04/21 at 03:26:02

Everyone could’ve done a better job in Afghanistan. But Biden screwed the pooch big-time. None of the mistakes made before compare with what grandpa did. None of them. He’s a clueless old man who needs to go. Yes, I would rather have our POCVP than grandpa.

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by MnSpring on 09/04/21 at 09:55:38

"...Everyone could’ve done a better job in Afghanistan...."

Pee We Hermon,
would have done a better Job !

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by Serowbot on 09/04/21 at 10:10:43

I hope they reeled the guy back in before they landed... ...or not.

Title: Re: Hanging from Blackhawk
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/21 at 10:41:54

Getting the Americans and allies out first, no justification for that failure.