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Message started by springman on 08/24/21 at 19:16:30

Title: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by springman on 08/24/21 at 19:16:30

Both bikes are down. The honda has the recurring sticky float so that I suspect bowl may be bad. Did not want to tear into that but I guess I am gong to have to do it.

The S40 has some sort of electrical problem. The battery is indicating 12.77 volts but I get absolutely nothing when I turn the key, not a single light turns on, not even a click from the starter. No big deal. I figured I had about 45 minutes of light left so I start to take off the seat so I can see what might be wrong. Well, the screw at the back of the seat by the tail light is stripped. Battled with it even after it got dark but to no avail. If anybody has any ideas of a simple way to remove that screw please share. Thanks.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by Dave on 08/25/21 at 03:52:10

Springman:

If you are talking about the screw at the back of the seat......I believe it is an allen head socket screw. Some might recommend drilling with a left hand drill - I have never owned a left hand drill so I suggest you try one f these methods. The head is very shallow - so trying this kind of tool may help. You may be able to find it locally at a hardware store.
https://www.amazon.com/Extractor-Stripped-HassleFree-Hardness-63-65hrc/dp/B08PCT9WBB/ref=asc_df_B08PCT9WBB/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=475689981997&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7794854091004004126&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9014420&hvtargid=pla-1188945619381&psc=1

The other method would be to just use a right hand drill and drill through the center of the screw and use a more common type EZOut or or similar extractor tool. The screw is 6mm I believe - so you are going to need a pretty small drill and extractor.

And finally you can drill the head off. Use a drill just a bit larger than the 6mm screw. Once the head is off the tension is no longer on the screw and it likely will come out far easier.

When you replace it don't make the screw really tight - just snug. The screw and allen head are small - they can't take much torque.

For the electrical issue on the Savage - check the ground cable and also the fuses. You can do that with the seat still on.

For the Honda - it sounds to me like you need to take the carb apart. The float could be damaged, the needle/seat might be damaged, or it could just be dirt or sticky goo in the carb.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by Tocsik on 08/25/21 at 06:41:35

Too frustrating to have both ponies sick. I've planned on replacing that rear screw with a wing bolt or thumb screw but never got around to it. Already replaced it once due to stripping.

You could try the old vise grip trick to grab the head of that screw. A pair of channel locks sideways on the vise grips gives extra torque. I bought a pair of Engineer screw removal pliers a while back and they've proven useful for stuff like this. Similar to Vampliers
https://www.amazon.com/Professional-International-VMPVT-002-6-Vampliers-Extraction/dp/B07BMKX4KG/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=screw+removal+pliers&qid=1629898546&s=hi&sr=1-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEySjQ0MDIwS1g4R0E0JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjQ3OTM1M1NZRDg1RVFXSVdOQyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwODg1MDQ4MlczNk5STFlaMEtEQyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by springman on 08/25/21 at 07:17:53

Thanks guys. Those are good suggestions.

Dave, I thought I had to take the seat off to see the fuses. I guess I need to take a better look. I checked the ground cable down by clutch linkage and it looked fine but will recheck.

Yep, with the Honda I suspect a faulty float but it could just be really dirty. It is just a job I do not want to take on. I will have to deal with it somehow though. Thanks.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by verslagen1 on 08/25/21 at 07:47:42

No lights, check the connectors under the tank for the hand controls.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/25/21 at 09:09:03

Have you considered JB welding an Allen wrench in it?

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/25/21 at 12:09:22

You can slot the head and use a flat blade.
You can work the metal back where it came from with a good pin punch and clean up the pocket for the allen wrench. Make sure you have the best fitting, quality allen wrench
Load it up with a deep socket and extension, like a cheater pipe and tap it with a punch, don't straight up hammer it.
The pin punch in the bottom of the pocket and smack it sharply a bit.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by springman on 08/25/21 at 12:23:26

Thanks for all the suggestions. JOG, yours is the one I was thinking of just because I believe I have the tools to do it, so no extra cash outlay. The only cash outlay will the the screw that will replace the buggered up screw which will not be an allen head.

As for the electrical issue thanks Versy, I definitely want to check all the wiring and fuses under the seat and tank. I'm sure once I have the seat and tank off it will be obvious what the problem is. At least I sure hope so.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/27/21 at 07:59:02

Antiseize is good to have.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by springman on 08/27/21 at 09:13:04

I got the float unstuck again. I removed the drain screw from the bowl. Shot carb cleaner through there and let it drain a few times. Blew air into the bowl. How many psi? I don't know, just what ever my cheeks could generate. Let the bowl fill up and turned the petcock to the off position. Ran the engine to empty the fuel in the bowl. Let gas into the bowl again. Drained the bowl. Blew more air into the bowl. Closed up the bowl. Put about four ounces of Berryman's into the tank. And now to see if it stays working properly.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by springman on 08/27/21 at 09:14:53

JOG. I do have anti seize. I guess I should use it. ; :-[

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/27/21 at 13:24:07

You don't HAVE to.. You can keep it and, well,, get shafted once in a while.
Stir it up,, because it's been sitting. Just a little bit is plenty. A thumbnails worth will go to your elbow.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by springman on 09/11/21 at 20:08:02

I finally got a chance to work on the bike. I tried slotting the head of the screw but each time I put the screwdriver on it to turn it I just kept shaving metal off the screw head. Frustrated I drilled the head off which of course created another problem by leaving the rest of the bolt in the nut. Will deal with that later.

I removed the seat, removed and replaced both fuses. Turned the key, the light came on, put in neutral, engaged clutch and pressed starter button and all electric goes out again. I remove both fuses again, and the exact same thing happens. I remove and replace both fuses again (fuses are fine) and this time nothing, no light, horn, nothing. I check all the connectors and wiring that I can see and I cannot see anything wrong/bad. At this point I have not removed the gas tank as it is nearly full and was hoping would not have to remove cuz it would be getting dark soon. So taking the tank off is the next logical step for me but any suggestions/ideas are much welcomed. Thanks. Oh, the battery is reading 12.70 volts.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/11/21 at 20:28:39

remove both fuses again, and the exact same thing happens. I remove and replace both fuses again (fuses are fine)

It's Not blowing the fuse?

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by verslagen1 on 09/11/21 at 20:34:11

Now is the time to add a couple of drops of pen oil on that headless screw.

Could be a couple of things, could be a short or it could be the starter.
If it's a short, you need to check every wire. one of these will eliminate replacing fuses every time you test something.
https://www.harborfreight.com/30-amp-automotive-fuse-circuit-tester-67724.html
http://https://shop.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_14146.jpg

Now to check the starter, you need to make sure the piston is not on the compression stroke. Take off the timing port and put a wrench on the crankshaft and turn it one half turn. If it's the compression stroke it'll be hard and you'll hear it leaking. If it was the compression stroke, you probably will need to tighten the decomp adjustment a little.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by verslagen1 on 09/11/21 at 20:48:45

Another thing to check is the battery and cables.
You said you checked the battery, at the terminals?
Check it again using any ground, a bolt on the engine and also anywhere on the frame. If you got a flaky ground, the reading will vary.
You can also check the positive lead, but it's a little tricky.
With the seat off, pull the rubber cap off the relay, one of the big wires goes to the battery. And with the key on, you can check the headlight leads.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by springman on 09/12/21 at 20:15:28

Thanks Versy. I'll try what you indicate. It looks like we are going to get rain all week long so don't know when I'll get chance to work on it but definitely want to get it running asap.

Why did you say to put pen oil on the headless screw?

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by verslagen1 on 09/12/21 at 20:52:45

7477756E69606A6669070 wrote:

Why did you say to put pen oil on the headless screw?

penetrating oil, to make it easier to get out. might need to soak it to loosen corrosion.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by springman on 09/13/21 at 11:20:51

Yep, I thought that was what you meant. I did put liquid wrench on it and probably add some more tonight. Thanks.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by springman on 10/18/21 at 09:25:00

I finally had a chance to work on the S40 this weekend. It is embarrassing but I will man up. After taking the tank off the bike and looking at all the wiring with nothing looking bad I finally decided to take the battery out and put it on my digital charger even though the load tester indicated 12.81 volts. The load tester sucks. The battery was discharged so I charged it and after I finished I put the load tester on it and it read 12.95 volts. :-? So I installed the battery, hit the start button and it cranked just fine. I put it all back together and took a ride and it worked just fine.

Moral of the story is. If it doesn't feel or look right. Trust your instinct. I knew I should have taken that battery out from the beginning. >:(

Well, the bike now has a pigtail on it to connect to the trickle charger.

The headless bolt I removed by spraying liquid wrench on it each day for 3 or 4 days prior to working on it. I then drilled a hole into the headless bolt and tapped a hex wrench into the bolt . It came out fairly easily. Thanks all for the help.

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/23/21 at 12:38:41

Well, the bike now has a pigtail on it to connect to the trickle charger.

The first time the battree has to be accessed, that needs done.
Good Goin

Title: Re: Exasperated and frustrated!!!
Post by springman on 10/25/21 at 11:45:48