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Message started by WebsterMark on 07/27/21 at 04:56:28

Title: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by WebsterMark on 07/27/21 at 04:56:28

I saw an interesting comment this morning.

If the Covid vaccines lessens serious symptoms, requires booster shots or if you can still get seriously sick from Covid after the shot, does it really perform in a manner that qualifies it as a vaccine at all? Or, it really a therapeutic? Meaning it treats symptoms more than prevents the disease through antibodies created as a result of the vaccine but those antibodies aren’t effective enough to prevent the disease? I don’t know for sure but after the smallpox vaccine, was I susceptible to a mild case of smallpox?

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by Eegore on 07/27/21 at 05:56:41

It's a good question.

Vaccine typically means that it stimulates the production of antibodies but no longer means using the actual disease itself or causative agent. Synthetics are now vaccines because they cause the body to create antibodies.

Effectiveness I would say doesn't change the term of vaccine. For instance we can have a vaccine that is 1% effective. It's useless, but still a vaccine.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by Serowbot on 07/27/21 at 08:14:24

I think a therapeutic treats symptoms,... the vaccine is given before any infection or symptoms. It may prevent infection, and it's fortunate that it also reduces severity if the infection happens anyway.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by WebsterMark on 07/27/21 at 10:29:00

But I take therapeutics in the form of anti-inflammatory drugs such as ibuprofen before activities create a response. I take another therapeutic in the form of steroid shots in my knee to prevent swelling from arthritis.

The difference between a vaccine and therapeutic is getting pretty narrow.

A good topic to read up on.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by Eegore on 07/27/21 at 10:56:00

My understanding is a vaccine is to prevent a future specific disease and does not require current symptoms, or infection.

A therapeutic requires the infection/disease/ailment etc. to exist in the human. That doesn't mean I need to have arthritis to use a therapeutic, it just means I am using it pro-actively if I take it prior to symptoms. The medication sin;t specifically designed to "prevent" arthritis but to treat symptoms if I get it. A therapeutic vaccine is designed for people that currently have the infection.

So there are multiple types of vaccines, some are therapeutic.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by verslagen1 on 08/13/21 at 18:37:02

I get what webby is saying... this vaccine doesn't prevent covid, only a specific response to it.
That's why herd immunity isn't going to happen like we expect. Because covid 19 is still raging whether you're vaccinated or not. to those that are, it's just another flu.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by WebsterMark on 08/14/21 at 04:24:34

I heard an interesting comment the other day and I’m not sure if it’s true and I haven’t read up on it but one person said unlike smallpox, we will never be rid of Covid because it has animal reservoirs available. Smallpox never infects animals. Never. The Common cold however is a coronavirus of which there are many including many. They never go away because they can always infect animals. I need to read up on this more and get back to you.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by Serowbot on 08/14/21 at 08:48:02

I just came across this photo the other day.
The last human to contract smallpox.
October 1977. Somalia
Pretty amazing to think that was not so long ago.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EK_XKY5pWc8/UXlHBSl_4MI/AAAAAAAAfoM/fvyDjFSQAxM/s320/last+smallpox+victim.png

I think the horror of what that disease looked like went a long way in encouraging vaccine acceptance.
Covid 19 doesn't present the same visual shock value.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by WebsterMark on 08/14/21 at 10:20:38

Smallpox had an astronomical death rate compare to Covid, over 30%. There was no political gain to be made.

Media and entertainment industry turned Covid into a political weapon. Those groups are almost exclusively aligned with the Democratic Party and we had a Republican President who they’d been trying to get rid of for years and this opportunity couldn’t be passed up. So, the media turned this into a game of choosing sides so blame your side for millions who won’t get vaccinated because they think by not getting vaccinated, they are helping their side win. Remember, it’s your Vice President who said she wouldn’t take Trump’s vaccine. It’s your media who said Trump told people to drink bleach. You helped created this monster and here we are.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by Serowbot on 08/14/21 at 11:01:25

6F5D5A4B4C5D4A75594A53380 wrote:

Remember, it’s your Vice President who said she wouldn’t take Trump’s vaccine.

That should have made the Trumpettes eager to vax.

How do you suppose the leftist media that Trumpettes ignore, carries such influence with them?
Nonsense... Trump wouldn't mask, poopoo'ed and downplayed,... and the Trumpettes followed like lemmings.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/14/21 at 14:57:58

You REALLY need to look into what segment of society is not getting the jab.
Trump has been a voice FOR the jab.
If Trump supporters AREN'T getting it, then your perception that we are following his every word must not be true.

I'm still selling the burn cream.
Get yours today!!!

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by Eegore on 08/14/21 at 16:30:31

"Smallpox had an astronomical death rate compare to Covid, over 30%. There was no political gain to be made."

Considering the last case in the US was in 1949 I would say "mainstream media" has changed since then. But there was political gain to a degree, just the mediums were different.

Also there was the The Anti Vaccination Society of America that was founded in 1879. Then the New England Anti Compulsory Vaccination League of 1882 and also the Anti-vaccination League of New York City in 1885 started.

They used the media of the time to combat the pro-vaccination media of the time. Now could someone literally make up complete garbage out of their own head and "share" it to millions in a second? No. Would they have? Yes.

Another factor is that Smallpox was a very well known disease, unlike SARS-COV-02 which popped up unpredictably. It's easier to weaponize something new than something with a documented history.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by Eegore on 08/14/21 at 16:32:58

"You REALLY need to look into what segment of society is not getting the jab.
Trump has been a voice FOR the jab.
If Trump supporters AREN'T getting it, then your perception that we are following his every word must not be true."

This is true, Trump did approve of Operation Warp Speed and for the most part seemed, to me, to be pro-vaccine. Now I also think that had more to do with his lack of knowledge and moderate level of delusional predictive behaviors, but he got poked.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/15/21 at 08:14:46

796660677A7D4C7C4C74666A21130 wrote:

The minorities are not getting the jab like you seem to think.
Nor are PHD types.
And how do people deal with having conflicting truths in their brains?

If it's True that Trump supporters are just cult members who follow their leader then how is it also true that every single one of them I know are not taking the jab?
Something you believe is incorrect.

I WONDER where some people got their idea to say no to the jab.
I'm pretty sure I remember people saying things like
This is Trump's shot. I'm not taking it.

Covid is such a problem that Biden opens the border and then ships illegals into the country,,

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by Serowbot on 08/15/21 at 10:16:29

"Vaccines will make you magnetic"
"Vaccines contain trackers"
"Vaccines will make you sterile"
"Only the unvaccinated will survive"
"God already gave me immunity"

These crackpot notions come from the same Facebook scientists that have said,
"The world is run by a cabal of Liberal pedophile baby eaters"
"Jews started California fires with space laser beams"
"Pizzagate"
...and, "Trump is really still the President"
"The election was a fraud"
"Biden is a hologram"

My Pilliow Guy and the Kraken hunters. ;D
The Right-Wing conspiracy nut fringe.
Who are these people protesting masks and vaccinations?
Trump supporters.
Why?... You tell me.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by MnSpring on 08/15/21 at 12:55:39

Quote:

6F4F4D45584F2A0 wrote:

" ... But there was political gain to a degree,
... "

Can you expound on how the media used a illness as a political gain, 60 + years ago ?

Or what 'expert' said that happened ?

Or did you just make it up ?

58787A726F781D0 wrote:
...
Considering the last case in the US was in 1949 I would say "mainstream media" has changed since then. But there was political gain to a degree, just the mediums were different..

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/15/21 at 14:53:44

2533243921343922560 wrote:

I'm supposed to answer for things I didn't say?

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by Serowbot on 08/15/21 at 15:09:09

I was just answering your question.
"I WONDER where some people got their idea to say no to the jab."

Vaccine avoidance came from internet crazies making up stuff.
It just happens that they are mostly Trump supporters.
This is why the pandemic is exploding in mostly red states, and red state governors are getting nutty about vaccines and masks.

We all need to be sensible and do what's right.
This isn't a right/left issue, it's a GLOBAL pandemic.
You got the jab, right? Me too.
We should all be fighting this thing. On the same side for once.
Peace

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by WebsterMark on 08/15/21 at 17:01:32

4F594E534B5E53483C0 wrote:

Nope.You used it to take Trump out. Don’t pretend otherwise and don’t try to walk away from what the left is mostly responsible for.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by Eegore on 08/15/21 at 21:04:26

Can you expound on how the media used a illness as a political gain, 60 + years ago ?

I didn't say media used illness as a political gain. I said there was a degree of political gain and that the mediums used, as in the type of media used, was different. There was no Facebook then so political influence was not driven by that media.

"Or what 'expert' said that happened ?"

A few. First I went through the "Political epidemiology: strengthening socio-political analysis for mass immunisation - lessons from the smallpox and polio programmes" DOI: 10.1080/17441690701727850 from the National Library of Medicine.

Then I dug up an old book I had called "POX" by Michael Willrich and went though notes I took then. I had reached out to Willrish and spoke briefly via Skype specifically about the differences in public perception of the US Government during the Roosevelt Administration. We also discussed pesthouses.

By my count that is information taken from 7 experts. However we haven't defined specifically what an "expert" is so there's a quick loophole you can jump through if you want to discount the level of research I do.

"Or did you just make it up ?"

No.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/15/21 at 21:26:08

The very FIRST antivaxers I heard were democrats.
Because
Trump..

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by WebsterMark on 08/16/21 at 05:05:13

That’s because back then, being anti-vax was the best strategy to get rid of Trump. When the variables changed, they switch strategies. Why? Science of course.

Title: Re: Therapeutic vs vaccine
Post by Eegore on 08/16/21 at 08:13:57

None of the politics changes the difference between a vaccine and a therapeutic, and the application of therapeutic vaccine.

This would be a lot easier if people would document what "news" they are getting and from where at what times. I obviously get different news than you guys do, and none of that applied to any of my research about vaccines or therapeutics.