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Message started by SCS40 on 07/24/21 at 14:34:53

Title: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by SCS40 on 07/24/21 at 14:34:53

So the PO had the oil changed with and unknown brand 10w40 just before I bought the bike. While I had it at the local Suzuki shop having the tires installed, I let them change it using the Red Line I provided. I read the oil thread and liked the idea of a "super oil" but know most opt for Rotella for understandable reasons.

I also went with RL hoping it would improve the occasional transmission binding when coming to a stop. Who knows, it might even improve the tranny's natural clunkiness a bit. Sadly, it didn't.

So, I thought I'd try what Suzuki originally filled it with and recommends. Had to search around a bit but found it here:

https://www.oneidasuzuki.com/store/parts-accessories/suzuki-performance-4-oil.html

Nice price but doesn't include UPS shipping. Still, it arrived in several days. I finally got around to changing it today.

Went on a short ride before the rain came: no binding. So far, so good. However, the issue usually only presented when fully warmed up and not sure I quite got there.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by springman on 07/24/21 at 18:20:43

Are you downshifting gears in relation to your speed or are you waiting until you are stopped or really slowed down to shift from higher gear to lower gears? If you are waiting until you have slowed substantially or stopped to shift back down from 5th, it will sometimes not want to shift. But if you downshift in relation to speed, then I have never had a problem. That has been my experience with the S40.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by SCS40 on 07/24/21 at 18:29:40

I don't fully downshift through every gear when coming up on a light or stop sign. The binding is very sporadic and happens at lower speeds. I'll see if this oil helps. If not, I may need to adapt my riding.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by Dave on 07/25/21 at 10:39:13

Unless you can confirm the Suzuki oil has 1,000 ppm of ZDDP or more - I would not use it. The Suzuki oil was not made specifically for the Savage, and it likely has a reduced ZDDP level as required in the Suzuki bikes that are fuel injected and have catalytic convertors.

The Savage engine has rocker arms that operate 2 valves each - it puts a lot of pressure on the cam and rocker wearing surfaces. They cam and rockers will not survive if you don't provide enough ZDDP.

Rotella has more than 1,000 ppm of ZDDP and is an excellent oil in the Savage - you will never suffer an oil related failure if you use it, change it regularly, and keep your oil level topped up.

Wear related oil failures in the Savage come from using oil with too little ZDDP, or from running the engine low on oil......or by having the idle speed too low which results in no oil getting to the head while the engine is idling. There is also cam/rocker damage that has likely been caused by allowing the engine to idle while leaned over on the side stand - the oil does not flow up to the left side rocker.....this kind of damage happens to those folks who like to start their bike in the winter and let it run for half an hour to charge the battery and run fresh fuel into the carb.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by Tocsik on 07/25/21 at 11:02:11

Does it feel as if the gears are binding when coming to a stop, or is it the shifting that feels harder? You may want to check your shift linkages and make sure all is good there. You can pull back the rubber boots on the joints and lube them and make sure the rods all look straight. I know you said the problem is intermittent, but still maybe worth a look.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by SCS40 on 07/25/21 at 17:56:31

Great tips all. When it binds, it will happen between 5/4, 4/3, and sometimes 3/2, but by then I'm nearly stopped, whether I planned to or not. I partly engage, then fully disengage to make the shift. The clutch was very "fast" and released just off the grip...and I do mean "just off." Adjusting didn't help much. About as much as the OEM oil. It still binds on occasion. I guess it's a combination of my riding style and the tranny design. :o

As for the oil, it's recommended by Suzuki and came filled with it, so I'm guessing it's okay to use.

On the other hand, they also designed the petcock and cam chain tensioner, so...

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by springman on 07/25/21 at 20:14:12

Rotella! :)

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by verslagen1 on 07/25/21 at 20:16:27

It may be your clutch throwout rod.
Check the lever against the case vs. the marks when you take up the slack in the clutch but don't disengage.
If you're close to the top mark you'll have less travel in the clutch vs. the lever.
Could also be a worn clutch basket.

Another thing might be the location of the shift arm next to the case.
If you're having trouble shifting down, move 1 spline over to shifting up.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 07/26/21 at 06:15:52

4D4E4C575059535F503E0 wrote:

Rotella! :)

Suzuki oil tests as simple automotive spec'd low additive level oil. It isn't what a Savage needs.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by SCS40 on 07/26/21 at 07:02:33

45666E6C6F66666F780A0 wrote:

[quote author=4D4E4C575059535F503E0 link=1627162493/0#6 date=1627269252]Rotella! :)

Suzuki oil tests as simple automotive spec'd low additive level oil. It isn't what a Savage needs.[/quote]

Based on the petcock and cam chain tensioner, I'm really not surprised about the oil. The local Cycle Gear carries Red Line, so that's an option, as is Rotella.

Sounds like I'll have to do more adjustments to sort out the binding. Great tips all and thanks tons!

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by Dave on 07/26/21 at 09:24:57

I am pretty sure everyone in the 100,000 mile club uses Rotella...likely the same in the 50,000 mile club.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1391195461

I am not sure you can get a better recommendation than that! :)

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by TRLREDY on 08/19/21 at 19:22:20

100K? That's impressive!

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/20/21 at 06:43:22

Why would anyone use any other oil than one that has such a proven record?

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 08/20/21 at 09:11:55

Justin, a newbie thinks that because it is a Suzuki oil and that Suzuki recommends it it must fit all Suzuki motorcycles. Not so, young padawan ......

Many modern Suzuki bikes have small cat converters as part of their manifold system. So Suzuki oil was neutered to remove the 1,000 plus ppm of ZDDP that the 1984 designed Suzuki Savage REQUIRED for a decent service life just so oxygen sensors and cat converters on the modern Suzuki bikes would last for a few years.

You, young padawan, are riding a single cylinder1984 designed antique bike that requires the use of a modern diesel oil to get most of the additive goodies it requires.

Rotella is the best of this lot.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by Serowbot on 08/20/21 at 09:32:00

50k miles using Rotella dino since 4k and it runs as good as when I bought it. It's a 97' bought in 06' with 3500 miles.
You can pay more, but you can't get better.
If you change oil at 3 or 4k miles... I think even Rotella synth is a waste. The extra viscosity just allows it to pump out faster at speeds above 70mph.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/20/21 at 10:23:26

Best move?

Go get some Rotella
Dump the oil
Leave the filter, it's fine.

The dealership may actually believe they are giving you The Best advice and selling you The Best oil for your bike, but they probably have no clue about the design of the valvetrain and the requirements for keeping it alive.

You are here ,home of the accumulated knowledge and experience of some really long term riders and they don't pay anyone else to work on their bikes.

The dealership should be coming here to learn about the bikes they sell.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by JED on 09/13/21 at 15:38:37

I just read all the oil related posts I could find on this forum. Just want to be clear the Rotella T4 and T6 are “diesel” oils and this is what’s appropriate for my Savage. I understand the necessity for 1200 ZDDP.

Thanks.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by Dave on 09/13/21 at 17:24:56

5F534141575C405506320 wrote:

Rotella T is an HDEO (Heavy Duty Engine Oil). It is used in Diesel engines and also in gasoline engines.

The 15W-40 rating is common in diesel engines - but it is also fine in the Savage. The 5W-40 is fine as well - but in most cases you will never be riding in cold enough weather that the "W" rating has any significance....that rating is at 32 degrees F or 0 celcius.

Rotella is a very good oil for the Savage....maybe even the best oil.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/14/21 at 08:48:58

So far, the engines with the what I call Exceptional High mileage, and I think a one lunger with fifty thousand miles is exceptional, have been running Rotella.. I'm sure there is at least one out there with a hundred thousand, hopefully the guys will chime in.
I don't know of any high mileage engines not running Rotella.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by badwolf on 09/14/21 at 09:43:21

Badwolf here, 130,000 + miles. T4 15-40 Dino all the way!
No oil or wear issues.
Only one disclaimer, I cruse and travel with my bike, and run both Kaw pulleys, so I seldom run the engine over 4k.
I can't vouch for running high revs or pushing power limits.
DBM would be that guy.

( Please let's NOT start another ''OIL WAR'' )

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by Ruttly on 09/14/21 at 09:49:21

Did someone say

OIL WAR

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/14/21 at 10:34:44

DAVE. DID . IT!!!

Rotella is a very good oil for the Savage....maybe even the best oil.

I know,, he was tiptoeing, he didn't want to start a war, but, fumble or not, the gauntlet was dropped.
Aaand being the responsible forum member I am, I left it alone,,
Coff Coff....

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by sjaskow - FSO on 09/14/21 at 11:15:49

To join in, when I first owned my S40, I used Mobil 1 V-Twin Synthetic before I learned about the need for ZDDP here. I switched to the Rotella T4. I'm still using Rotella T4 in my Vision since it's JASO MA/MA2 rated and much cheaper than Victory oil is.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by Dave on 09/15/21 at 03:26:39

I am not entirely sure I started an oil war..........but if I did it was to fire a shot over the bow and then retreat.

I used to participate in the costly practice of buying fancy oil - and some of them are really good oils. When I first got my Savage I was running Brad Penn oil with a high level of ZDDP. It was about $9 a quart and I had to drive for 30 minutes each way to the only place in Cincinnati that has it in stock.

I believe Rotella has everything that is needed to keep the engine healthy, it costs half what the fancy oils cost, and I can buy at any auto parts or big box store.

There really isn't any need to buy or use anything else if you have access to Rotella.

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 09/15/21 at 06:17:00

Oh my goodness, another pesky oil war .......

Who is the questor for the "other side" of this here oil war since we just went and got the big boiling pot out of storage jest to greet them properly.

Suzuki Motorcycle has to (is required by gov mandate) it has to recommend oils that are safe for all their very most modern cat converter equipped bikes, Suzuki does this knowing durn well the Savage engine in question hails back to '86 design-wise and the Savage valve train on all years before 2010 likely requires the very largest ZDDP numbers that only exist in Rotella and the other HDEO oils.

And if you count the cam chain itself as a separate failure point then all the years, they all all all require the 1200 ppm of ZDDP that comes only in the HDEO oils.

Suzuki also thinks it is OK to tell you to in essence to self-scrap out your engine way way early by giving you "the currently politically correct" oil recommendations.

OR, we can say we are having us a big 'ol crab boil with new potatoes and corn on the cob for everybody and leave off on the questor.

;) Justin, lacking a questor for your last comments means that it is BATH TIME for you again ........

http://https://www.mainelobsternow.com/media/cms_pages/lobster-cooking-pot.jpg

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/15/21 at 10:54:58

Well, DAMMITALL!

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by Oldfeller--FSO on 09/15/21 at 11:47:20

Crab, crayfish or lobster ........ they all rattle right frantically against the side of the pot when they first go into the hot water.

Some claim the lobsters occasionally shriek a weird high pitched whistle if you put them in slowly tail first but I've never heard them do that, personally.

I will attest that a big one that is still fresh from being "freezer killed" will still come up out of the pot right through a closed lid.

Justin, who was it that started this here oil war, again?

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/15/21 at 20:25:24

Rotella is a very good oil for the Savage....maybe even the best oil.

While perhaps not exactly a challenge for others, it's at least suggestive of a claim of superiority. I did say he did some tiptoeing,, but in my opinion,, even if accidentally, he dropped the gauntlet.
Understand we are approaching weather not so conducive to riding. I don't think it's a bad thing to start warming up to fill our time with other things.

Dave did it! Take his gold stars away!

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by Fabricio Bino on 09/16/21 at 07:30:30

Just my 10 centavos brasileiros of opinion in the current oil war, but i just found out that in Brazil you can get YPS EXTRAVIDA XV100B diesel oil that says its got 1.4% of ZDDP. Like literally saying that, no zinc or zinc and phosphorus BS.

Why do I know this? because there is no Rotella in Brazil

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by youzguyz on 09/16/21 at 11:31:16

617E787F62655464546C7E72390B0 wrote:

I refuse to chime in with my ridiculous low mileage .. 219,000.
My other Savage only has 61,000.
Rotella T6.

Hoping to make 1/4 million miles on Thumper. Plodding along...

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by ohiomoto on 09/16/21 at 20:35:47

219k is usually reserved for Toyota's and commercial grade diesel trucks!!

http://https://c.tenor.com/8Wq_gin1LxoAAAAC/drop-the-mic-mic-drop.gif

Title: Re: First Oil Change w/Suzuki Performance 4
Post by Dave on 09/17/21 at 04:22:57

4A4D4C4A484A514A250 wrote:

219k is usually reserved for Toyota's and commercial grade diesel trucks!!

My Pontiac Vibe that I used to pull the motorcycle to Texas - has 190,000 miles and is still running strong! No weird noises, doesn't burn oil, still gets 32MPG! The way it sounds and drives I believe it could last 300,000 plus miles!

And guess what! I use Rotella in it!