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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> Happy Birthday! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1624641970 Message started by WebsterMark on 06/25/21 at 10:26:10 |
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Title: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/25/21 at 10:26:10 Global Warming was born 33 years ago. During a midlife crisis, she changed her name to Climate Change so she could slip into the middle of conversations a little easier. It made her easier on the eyes (and ears) so to speak. Still after 33 years, you’d think I’d be able to personally detect this b!tche$ presence but try as I might, I can’t find hide nor hair of her. I keep hearing she’s everywhere but when I get there; she’s gone. It’s like that story we heard in high school. There’s a brand new black Smokey and The Bandit TransAm for $500. 4 dudes OD’d in the woods and it sat there so long the car stinks but all you gotta do is replace the interior and you’ve got yourself a kick-a$$ car. But try as you might, couldn’t quite track it down. Oh well, may she’ll show up before 50. She might be old but maybe she’ll be a MILF, let’s hope. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/25/21 at 11:18:18 Ignorance is bliss |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Serowbot on 06/25/21 at 12:31:28 Surface temperatures in Siberia heat up to a mind-boggling 118 degrees https://www.cnet.com/news/surface-temperatures-in-siberia-heat-up-to-a-mind-boggling-118-degrees/ Pacific Northwest braces for record-breaking heat wave https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/pacific-northwest-braces-record-breaking-heat-wave-78471647 |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/26/21 at 05:18:58 716F60616C716A77050 wrote:
Good morning Mr Bliss. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/26/21 at 05:25:38 506265747362754A66756C070 wrote:
Good morning Mr Bliss. [/quote] Good morning reneg-er, person of zero honor and ignorant man made climate change denier. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/26/21 at 05:26:06 2335223F27323F24500 wrote:
Oh my gosh…. Record temperatures over the course of a year in a huge country …who could have predicted that? Satellites show the temp has increased but no where near the predicted amounts. There is no climate catastrophe. It’s just an industry now with a lot of people making a lot of money. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/26/21 at 05:27:01 263837363B263D20520 wrote:
Good morning Mr Bliss. [/quote] Good morning reneg-er, person of zero honor and ignorant man made climate change denier. [/quote] Those allegations are false and have been dealt with Mr Bliss. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/26/21 at 05:33:27 6D5F58494E5F48775B48513A0 wrote:
Lol you mean they've been ignored. Whatever man, you do you. Go ahead and welch, renege, whatever... I know who you are. I have from the start. ;D |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/26/21 at 06:06:47 As I’ve said repeatedly, come on man, get with it. Those are debunked falsehoods. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/26/21 at 06:28:15 6E5C5B4A4D5C4B74584B52390 wrote:
Face it, man - you said you'd leave and you didn't. It just shows who you are. There's nothing to debunk. You have no honor or credibility. You do you. I'm happy and justified in never making a bet with you. ;D |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/26/21 at 12:05:56 You keep bringing up these false and discredited claims. Come on man, get with it. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Serowbot on 06/26/21 at 13:05:16 All that time I spent trying to talk you guys out of a wager that never existed?... Wish somebody had told me. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/26/21 at 14:16:05 370502131405122D01120B600 wrote:
Repeating the lie doesn't make it true... no matter what the trump playbook says. ;D |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/27/21 at 03:30:59 574946474A574C51230 wrote:
Repeating the lie doesn't make it true... no matter what the trump playback says. ;D [/quote] You sure that’s a Trump playback ? |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Matchless G11 on 06/27/21 at 06:08:41 Let's see here When I was young Acid rain was going to get us. Before that it was the "Next big one" was going to hit LA. And when my brother was growing up, we were going to enter the next ice age. Chicken Little again. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by MnSpring on 06/27/21 at 08:30:40 Totally Remember, "The ICE AGE is Coming" !!!!!!!!! Next was, "Acid Rain". Next was, 'Hole in the Ozone'. And of course, 'Half of Calf is going to fall in the sea'. And a bunch of people, made lots on money on the FEAR, the 'Media' Spread. And golly Gee Wally, ya think the, 'Media' got any ??????? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by MnSpring on 06/27/21 at 12:21:50 Quote:
Gee, someone, needs to make up their mind, And not talk out of both sides. Look at the LIE Sarah Brady Brady did, for over 33 years, And SHE NEW IT WAS A TOTAL LIE. Yet the, ‘media’ repeated the LIE over and over ! Cause it was a good, ‘sound bite’ ! And that LIE, continues on today in many forms, because the, ‘Gun Hating Groups’, believe: Repeating a lie does make it true! |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/27/21 at 14:13:53 477572636475625D71627B100 wrote:
Repeating the lie doesn't make it true... no matter what the trump playback says. ;D [/quote] You sure that’s a Trump playback ? [/quote] FIFY |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/27/21 at 14:39:51 2B323C3C6A6A293E2F3E3830686F6E5B0 wrote:
Ignorance is bliss for you too I see. Nearly 8 billion people on the planet, gigatons of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere every year, the quickest spike in global temperature in history.... yeah, it's probably nothing..... I mean, why should you care about future generations, right? You'll be dead and it won't affect you, right? But that's ok. You deniers are in the minority, thankfully. Green energy will push you out of the way and prevail. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Serowbot on 06/27/21 at 14:58:12 Things Liberals believe -Man is contributing to Global Warming -Guns are dangerous in the wrong hands -Racism exists -Women can make their own choices -Healthcare should be a human right -Trump really isn't very bright Things Trumpers believe -Shootings are staged by play actors -Hillary runs a sex ring in the cellar of a Pizza joint (with no cellar) -Liberals eat babies -People that chant "Jews will not replace us" and "white power" are good people -Jews start fires in California with laser beams -Italy changed US votes with satellites -Bamboo only grows in China -Covid is fake and there are tracking chips in the jabs |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/28/21 at 04:50:36 2630273A22373A21550 wrote:
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 06/28/21 at 11:42:15 Things Trumpers believe "that absolutely no one really believes." Really? Nobody on the planet thinks shootings are staged? False flag discussions are actually people talking about things they do not believe? Nobody on the planet, including the guy who was arrested for going to the Pizzagate location armed believed it? Then why was he there? Not one person on the planet that subscribes to Q-Anon thinks Liberals are cannibals? They are all just saying it? Why? Why would all this have such high levels of communication in those communities? |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/28/21 at 18:00:43 Sure there are people who believe all sorts of ridiculous things. We have some mental giants on here who think junior high schooler Brett Kavanaugh organized summer long rape parties with the same girls over and over and nobody knew about it. Some of these clowns even believe that crazy Ford wacho. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/28/21 at 18:09:46 0A383F2E29382F103C2F365D0 wrote:
What's a Ford "wacho"? Is that like a Bronco?... |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/29/21 at 03:13:24 You. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/29/21 at 03:27:08 340601101706112E021108630 wrote:
I'm a car? ;D |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/29/21 at 04:00:07 But getting back to the original, ignorant post... The Northwest is posting record high temperatures: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kptv.com/news/salem-hits-hottest-temperature-in-america/article_e03a6932-d897-11eb-9779-eb4a3e3d1bf0.amp.html 117 degrees is Salem????? Yeah, this is all normal.......... :-? |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/29/21 at 10:15:46 So a fraction of a degree over years is responsible for record temp in Salem OR? |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/29/21 at 10:31:48 And I see we’re expecting record low temperatures where I am so global cooling is back on the menu! |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/29/21 at 10:35:54 4E7C7B6A6D7C6B54786B72190 wrote:
Yes. You don't know much about climate, do you? And it's not a fraction, it's nearly 1.1 degree at the moment. We'll approach a 3 degree increase before too long. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/29/21 at 10:37:30 6B595E4F48594E715D4E573C0 wrote:
You should learn the difference between climate and weather. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/29/21 at 13:44:04 Bull$hit……. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/29/21 at 13:52:21 043631202736211E322138530 wrote:
No, there really is a difference between climate and weather. You should read up on it. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/29/21 at 14:31:42 You just pointed out unusually high temperature in one area of the country occurring at the same time as unusually low temperature in another area of the country is climate and not weather. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Serowbot on 06/29/21 at 14:54:02 I think weather is considered a daily variation. Climate is a trend over extended time. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/29/21 at 16:37:35 695B5C4D4A5B4C735F4C553E0 wrote:
Yeah, because climate affects weather. Making it extreme. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/29/21 at 16:42:52 3A2C3B263E2B263D490 wrote:
Exactly. Extended time when it comes to the Earth could be hundred million years. We have actual data for a tiny fraction of that. So there’s high temperatures in the Northwest because the jet stream turned north and some guy on a motorcycle forum says it’s climate change. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/29/21 at 16:54:19 063433222534231C30233A510 wrote:
Exactly. Extended time when it comes to the Earth could be hundred million years. We have actual data for a tiny fraction of that. So there’s high temperatures in the Northwest because the jet stream turned north and some guy on a motorcycle forum says it’s climate change. [/quote] LOL. No, it's not some guy on a motorcycle forum saying that. The guy is just relaying the facts that scientists have uncovered using core samples of the Earth that go back millions of years. AND THESE SCIENTISTS ARE A MAJORITY OF ALL CLIMATOLOGISTS, NOT JUST A FRINGE. The Earth's average temperature is rising at unprecedented speed since the start of the industrial revolution. It's not just the temperature that is concerning, it's the rate of change. These are facts, supported by hand kept records and core samples from the poles and elsewhere. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 06/29/21 at 19:55:57 My experience has been that 30 years of weather data is the most widely used set to average out climate. When building 2 placebo models for an assessment on weather modeling and climate prediction for a section of agricultural land in CO I was informed the models would look suspicious if they were less than 30 years. Mine were 10. This came from multiple sources. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/30/21 at 05:30:44 4A545B5A574A514C3E0 wrote:
Exactly. Extended time when it comes to the Earth could be hundred million years. We have actual data for a tiny fraction of that. So there’s high temperatures in the Northwest because the jet stream turned north and some guy on a motorcycle forum says it’s climate change. [/quote] LOL. No, it's not some guy on a motorcycle forum saying that. The guy is just relaying the facts that scientists have uncovered using core samples of the Earth that go back millions of years. AND THESE SCIENTISTS ARE A MAJORITY OF ALL CLIMATOLOGISTS, NOT JUST A FRINGE. The Earth's average temperature is rising at unprecedented speed since the start of the industrial revolution. It's not just the temperature that is concerning, it's the rate of change. These are facts, supported by hand kept records and core samples from the poles and elsewhere. [/quote] You’re repeating what you’ve heard from approved outlets and refuse to listen to retorts that demonstrate valid scientific data offering evidence that the climate change claims are vastly overrated. Sure the climate is changing and sure the temp is increasing over time. As I’ve pointed out before with no retort on here, a fraction of a second ago on the earth’s geological clock, you would not have been able to stand where Chicago’s lake front land sits today because there were no Great Lakes 15,000 years ago, they were still frozen glaciers. People lie or fool themselves all the time. Climate Change is its own industry now. Do you seriously believe data that calls into question the foundation for the life’s work and livelihood for so many is going to get a fair shake? You would never trust oil or tobacco people and the scientists they hire to tell the truth, yet you practically grant Sainthood to a lifelong career climatologist? (as long as they’re not one of the claimant allergist who dispute the excepted narrative. Those guys are evil.) |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by T And T Garage on 06/30/21 at 08:58:32 714344555243546B47544D260 wrote:
To what end, mark? "Big climate"? LOL - you mean to tell me that these climatologists have been playing the long con to finally... what?.... prove themselves right??? Were they just waiting for Elon Musk to reach adulthood so they could make billions?..... It's funny that you don't see how you're projecting onto me, exactly what's happening to you - who do you think supports "scientific data offering evidence that the climate change claims are vastly overrated"? If you think it's anyone but big oil, you're sorely mistaken. The vast majority of the scientific community supports the fact that man-made global warming is the single biggest threat to mankind. https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/ You deniers are just wrong. Plainly and simply wrong. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Serowbot on 06/30/21 at 09:23:59 Web,... in some posts you deny Climate Change,.. in others you admit it but say it's natural. If I assume you will agree that it's happening, what difference does it make whether it's natural or not? If we admit that it's happening, shouldn't we try to reduce the effect? It will displace millions of people, costing trillions of dollars. It will destroy farms. It will devastate ports and commerce. Insurance rates will soar. Lives will be lost by flood, fire, and storm. Doesn't it seem socially and economically sound to fight it? |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/30/21 at 10:37:24 293F28352D38352E5A0 wrote:
I don’t deny the climate changes. I just pointed out again the Great Lakes were formed by retreating glaciers as the temperature shifted a very short 15,000 years ago so clearly the climate changes. I believe gases generated by human activity could and do impact the earths climate. VOCs from the wildfires on the West Coast are detected in airborne sampling on the East Coast so certainly gases released into the atmosphere could trap heat. They could also generate many other interactions that we don’t understand yet. I just question why scientific debate is shut down on this topic unless the premise has been agreed to before hand and that premise is a predetermined temperature increase will occur due to CO2 despite the fact temperature predictions made for the previous 20 or 30 years have not been met. Climate change is an industry in and of itself. As I said, people make fortunes, peoples careers or made, enormous amounts of money changes hands based upon the premise I stated above. And if you disagree with the premise or offer legitimate scientific evidence to suggest otherwise, you are labeled, as my Chicago friend just did, a denier because that’s easier than considering for a moment that maybe the reason why the temp predictions have been way off is because we don’t understand the dynamics like we thought we did and perhaps we should listen to these other ideas rather than force then into the dark or end their careers. Climate change has not displaced millions, has not created massive immigration, is not the cause of more powerful hurricanes, tornadoes or not even the cause of a condo collapse in Florida. As I’ve challenged everyone on here before, give me evidence of one thing you’ve seen in your lifetime that’s different now than 25 years ago that you can directly tie to a temperature increase of a fraction of a degree. Climate change is a convenient reason for all types of social engineering schemes which mostly come out of the left side of the political spectrum. So yes I’m suspicious. Like Obama, Kerry, Biden and others, if I had the ability to buy a seafront house, I would because like them, I’m not seriously worried about the sea flooding inland. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 06/30/21 at 10:48:47 "As I’ve challenged everyone on here before, give me evidence of one thing you’ve seen in your lifetime that’s different now than 25 years ago that you can directly tie to a temperature increase of a fraction of a degree." I did that for a section of agricultural land in Colorado and you told me to go to a party instead of verifying that data. Over 3.6 million data points were used, two climate models were fabricated to test analytics, 6 total models were cross referenced with 9 additional climate predictive overlays. The agriculture sections that utilized two specific increased temperature models resulted in increased crop yields over 9 years. One even utilized the non-increase overlay for corn, beets, watermelon and pumpkin to see if there was measurable differences over time. That section showed losses in 4 years. So I can provide a specific section of land that has used both standard modeling and increase overly that shows the increase overlay planting schedules offer more yield. To me, that indicates either all modeling is off or there is at least one place on the planet that is effected by increased temperatures - and can adjust accordingly to mitigate those losses by using climate models. Specific to the interior of this perimeter: 38.391368 -104.184554 38.359070 -104.505130 (does not include airport temp readings) 38.181981 -104.522212 37.771692 -103.163562 38.2633113 -103.78796 So the question is what evidence are you willing to accept? |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Rockn on 06/30/21 at 11:06:29 Yeah Eegore you might have experience doing a study using millions of data points, but I've watched a YouTube video saying climate change is a hoax. Checkmate. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 06/30/21 at 11:16:04 No. You quoted data created by modeling software that makes the assumption all variables are accounted for. And how exactly did you confirm it was the human activity that contributed to the change that created a higher yield or was it natural variation in local temperatures, soil conditions, seed performance? Had the results been inconclusive, would this data have been available? Here’s my point, I hear ridiculous stuff like from our idiot vice president who says widespread immigration from Central America is partially because of climate change. I hear this other stupid person today tell me the condo collapse was because of climate change. I hear all kinds of ridiculous things associated with climate change. I see nothing for real. What you pointed out, if real, is virtually impossible to detect without advanced equipment that relies on a best guess at modeling software controlling the variables. Again, I’m suspicious and rightly so. If you’re (ok not you specifically but supposed authorities) trying to tell me Miami will be under water in 10 years because I drive a pickup and BBQ beef on the weekends, I don’t believe you. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 06/30/21 at 11:35:17 "No. You quoted data created by modeling software that makes the assumption all variables are accounted for." Close. Except we also have physical results from agriculture yield. The modeling is only for temperature averages. Farmers use those models to help decide what volume of what plant to attempt to gain yield from. Higher yields use temp increase overlays. "And how exactly did you confirm it was the human activity that contributed to the change that created a higher yield or was it natural variation in local temperatures, soil conditions, seed performance." You never asked to prove that it was humans causing a temperature increase, you asked for evidence of one thing seen in our lifetime that’s different now than 25 years ago that you can directly tie to a temperature increase of a fraction of a degree. My answer is farming yields on certain crops have changed in the past 25 years, in this specific area, with higher yields coming from farmers using a temperature increase overlay. You bring up variables such as soil, seed, etc. which have been taken into account for as much as they can. For instance we do not have 60 years of hydrology data, we only have tests of that specific water for 33 years. Seed data is pretty extensive, down to the DNA for almost every crop. My point is that the increase temp modeling, when used, results in higher yields. It could incidentally be because of a change in the water, or a universal change in every farmer's soil at the same rate. What suggestions do you have for testing every section of soil in the region? This is the most challenging variable to overcome. Two years ago we exhumed 9 tons of soil from a low-yield area and exchanged it with a higher-yield one and made sure to disk it using the same tractor and equipment load. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Serowbot on 06/30/21 at 13:22:00 It's not like weather events come with a label on the back... ;D |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by MnSpring on 06/30/21 at 16:19:31 Quote:
Nope ! It is the, vast majority, of the ‘scientists; Who do the bidding of the people/organizations, Who PAY THEM ! By Grants/Gifts/Funding/Donation/etc./etc./etc. That have a UL, FDS, Socialism view of the World. (Just ask Fiochi, Oh that’s right he does not tell the truth either) If one is not sprinkling Fairy Dust, and able to use their brain. (not just do/say what they are TOLD to) They will see those, ‘scientists’, will have exactly the same opinion, as the people giving them money! |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by MnSpring on 06/30/21 at 16:35:11 Quote:
Why not 60 or 90 years ? That would add more of a swing, if their was no, 'adjusting' ! Just a little thing called 'adjusting', for the place where the data came from. Kinna like the weather station, next to a State HY. THAT STATION WAS THEIR, 51 years ago when I started driving. Then, 50 + years ago, it was 35 min one way, and 45 min the other, before, 'signs of civilization', occurred. 10 Years ago it was 10 min one way, and 20 min the other. Today it is 5 min one way, and 15 min the other. NA, that could not have any affect, on what the, 'scientists', are getting PAID to say. (Golly Gee Wally, what if that weather/data station, was put in at same distances as 50+ years ago?) |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Rockn on 06/30/21 at 17:44:36 63407D5E5C4740492E0 wrote:
Nope ! It is the, vast majority, of the ‘scientists; Who do the bidding of the people/organizations, Who PAY THEM ! By Grants/Gifts/Funding/Donation/etc./etc./etc. That have a UL, FDS, Socialism view of the World. (Just ask Fiochi, Oh that’s right he does not tell the truth either) If one is not sprinkling Fairy Dust, and able to use their brain. (not just do/say what they are TOLD to) They will see those, ‘scientists’, will have exactly the same opinion, as the people giving them money! [/quote] Wait until you hear about elected officials getting paid golly gee. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by MnSpring on 06/30/21 at 17:52:06 0B2B29213C2B4E0 wrote:
So no adjustment for the 100's of reasons, a crop has more yield now, than, 30-50 years ago ? |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 06/30/21 at 19:31:10 "Why not 60 or 90 years ? That would add more of a swing, if their was no, 'adjusting' !" Why not 31.1 or 29.9 years? Eventually a number is decided on, and the most common standard is 30 when it comes to assembling weather data into climate data. This may change someday as more peer-reviewed evidence points to accuracy at a different timeframe because that's how science works. Or we can use anecdotes and stories and see how that goes. "So no adjustment for the 100's of reasons, a crop has more yield now, than, 30-50 years ago ?" Please tell me the 100's of adjustments needed and I can see what can be done. The bottom line is Webstermark asked a question and my evidence answers his question. He didn't even ask for evidence, then specifically suggested I not verify it, but I wanted it to confirm my observed reality because my reality is not enough to provide proof. Farmers that use temperature increase overlay models of a fraction of a degree get higher yields for specific plants in this one specific area. If you want to fabricate 100's of other reasons for that to be wrong and provide zero evidence that's fine, but it won't change the reliability of the current resources being used to gain that higher number. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 07/01/21 at 04:41:41 634341495443260 wrote:
So this has nothing to do with anthropogenic climate change. It’s data gathering and techniques used by farmers to adjust planting to maximize yields based on changing localized conditions. So my question/challenge still stands but I guess I’ll have amend it by stating the obvious which is none of us can point to a single change in our lifetimes that we can confidently blame on the effect of anthropogenic climate change. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 07/01/21 at 05:16:32 "So my question/challenge still stands but I guess I’ll have amend it by stating the obvious which is none of us can point to a single change in our lifetimes that we can confidently blame on the effect of anthropogenic climate change." What evidence would you be willing to accept? I for one can't imagine any situation where you couldn't pose the same question MnSpring does and ask how 100's of other variables are accounted for. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 07/01/21 at 05:37:04 If this is the most critical threat to humanity, wouldn’t you think it would be obvious? I’m 60 years old and have been fortunate enough to travel throughout the entire country for the better part of the last 30 years. I’ve been back and forth to the Ozarks hills in Southern Missouri my whole life. I see nothing that makes me believe the climate change hype. Nothing. My brother and I have a remote stream we hike up and fish that maybe only a 100 people know where it is and how to get to it. Been going there for decades. Everything is the same now as it was 30 years ago other than the slow but noticeable effects of natural erosion. In fact, the region is the same unless it’s due to nature’s natural erosion or human construction. Storms cause water to rise and channels that have been dry for years now become the main waterway. The old stream bed will grow over for 5 or 6 years until another odd combination of weather forces the stream back. And so on… When human expansion alters the conditions in stream water, it’s noticeable. You can see the difference and you can backtrack to the cause. Tell me where you can personally see the difference this existential threat has caused in your lifetime and prove that the change was caused by man made global warming. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 07/01/21 at 07:34:58 "Tell me where you can personally see the difference this existential threat has caused in your lifetime and prove that the change was caused by man made global warming." What type of evidence would you accept as proof that weather or climate change is man made? As I said before, we can just say 100's of other variables mitigate any claim. So what is needed to provide substantial evidence? |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 07/01/21 at 09:03:39 Look, if I say crime is getting worse it’s pretty easy to prove that. So just show me how man-made global warming is having an impact on our lives. Show me. Something you’ve seen in your own personal life that convinces you man-made global warming is occurring. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 07/01/21 at 09:05:11 And if you can’t, it’s OK to say “I can’t show you. There’s nothing that I can see or experience the clearly demonstrates man-made global warming is having an impact on our environment to the degree I can notice it.” Because I can’t. I see nothing. I’ve experienced nothing. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 07/01/21 at 09:17:57 "Look, if I say crime is getting worse it’s pretty easy to prove that." But is it easy to prove the reasons? Is it the result of systemic racism? More unemployment, or maybe the influx of immigrants? Is it more access to extensive and accurate reporting? Is it because everyone has a cellphone camera and can record otherwise unreportable crime? Reduction in public school funding? You are presenting "crime" as an effect and then asking us to prove cause for global climate warming. So prove to me why crime is increasing and account for all the variables in the same way you would want me to prove man-made causation of global warming. I see the benefits of using global warming predictive models in agriculture in my area. I see it, I witness benefits and losses, and have spent years and thousands of dollars verifying these results. You want proof that the models use climate warming that is man-made. What evidence would you require to show cause and not the effect? |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 07/02/21 at 09:01:14 It’s like porn, you know it when you see it and if climate change is so eminent that we need a Czar, you shouldn’t have a problem. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Serowbot on 07/02/21 at 09:21:11 You ask for a single specific instance of proof knowing that any individual event can be cast aside as an aberration. You must look at the confluence of events that are beyond the norm. ...and you know this. You're playing a game. And you think you have a clever cheat. It don't change the reality. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 07/02/21 at 09:49:41 "It’s like porn, you know it when you see it and if climate change is so eminent that we need a Czar, you shouldn’t have a problem." So would you accept proof of man-made global warming to be "I know it when I see it?" |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 07/02/21 at 09:58:08 The confluence of events huh?…. Beyond the norm huh? The “norm” we have data on is a tiny sliver in the timeline. Who has any honest idea what the norm is? The infamous hockey stick graph that highlighted CO2 is being proved wrong consistently as we speak. There’s so much BS. Should I go and pull up all the doom and gloom predictions made by Elders with the climate change religion that have not even remotely occurred? The problem is your side blames anything that’s convenient on climate change. Wildfires in the NW are because of climate change, not forest mismanagement. Mass immigration is climate displacement, not lax border security and government handouts. Climate change is occurring due to natural and man-made influences but what portion is contributed by either is unknown. I’ve read plenty of papers that suggest, with data, the man-made portion is very small. Have you? Or do you dismiss anyone who doesn’t follow your climate religion as a denier. I have no desire to condemn to death and abject poverty those in nations who do not have our energy infrastructure over a power grab by mostly leftists. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 07/02/21 at 10:05:35 Here, read it and make valid objections. https://www.aei.org/articles/the-case-for-climate-change-realism/ |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 07/02/21 at 11:17:31 The problem is your side blames anything that’s convenient on climate change. Wildfires in the NW are because of climate change, not forest mismanagement. Mass immigration is climate displacement, not lax border security and government handouts. I agree with this and think climate change is over-used as a means to explain so many situations, and of course make money. Things like "carbon footprint" are genius as they make people/organizations post themselves as the problem. Climate change is a business for sure, but so is politics and not every politician in the world is there just for the money. What I don't agree with is using anecdotal observation as evidence that man-made impact is not significant while not accepting that same type of evidence in return. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 07/02/21 at 12:26:02 What I don't agree with is using anecdotal observation as evidence that man-made impact is not significant while not accepting that same type of evidence in return. If you’re suggesting claims that the east coast will be under water in 10 years is equal to me saying I’ve not seen any changes in 40 years (and neither have you) you’re not operating on the same level. But whatever, I’m outta here for the weekend. Happy 4th all. If the commies trying to destroy us. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 07/02/21 at 13:20:51 "If you’re suggesting claims that the east coast will be under water in 10 years is equal to me saying I’ve not seen any changes in 40 years (and neither have you) you’re not operating on the same level." I have seen changes. I have described them here, and even spent years verifying the information and offered it in the past. I am saying that you present "Effect" but won't accept that from others. You want "Cause" as proof. Like your crime example - you see increase in crime and provide zero reference for cause of crime increase. You present only observation of the result. If somebody else says, I see less crime, you want them to provide a cause for that observation. You won't accept their observation of result. And now you are even going as far as to say what others see. Are you really going to tell me I don't see climate models being used in agriculture? What would you accept as proof? I can offer the models, the outcomes, video of hydrology testing, results of testing, permits for high altitude readings, results of readings, about 20 direct witnesses of this project, farm yield metrics, statements from owners of those yields, video of those statements, and would even offer direct contact with multiple people involved. Would that be enough to show that I have indeed seen farming changes due to weather, and that those changes utilize climate modeling, or will you still think I don't see these things? |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by MnSpring on 07/02/21 at 16:53:03 WOW, instead of answering a simple question, with a 'yes' or 'no' answer, you decided to say: Quote:
A very MAJOR question of all different possibilities. A simple yes or no. And if yes, than possibaly a list of things. Nop, gotta go for the SPIN instead !!!!!!! (did the tt&clones teach/tell you how to do that ?) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 07/02/21 at 21:11:57 "A very MAJOR question of all different possibilities. A simple yes or no. And if yes, than possibaly a list of things. Nop, gotta go for the SPIN instead !!!!!!! (did the tt&clones teach/tell you how to do that ?)" WOW, you left this part out: Please tell me the 100's of adjustments needed and I can see what can be done. Toss me some and I will let you know what I have. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by MnSpring on 07/03/21 at 09:18:20 Quote:
I have, yet you did not, 'see what could be done'' ! |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 07/03/21 at 11:38:26 You said this: Reply #51 - 06/30/21 at 17:52:06 "So no adjustment for the 100's of reasons, a crop has more yield now, than, 30-50 years ago ?" Then said this: Reply #68 - 7/2/21 at 16:53:03 A very MAJOR question of all different possibilities. A simple yes or no. And if yes, than possibaly a list of things. Nop, gotta go for the SPIN instead !!!!!!! (did the tt&clones teach/tell you how to do that ?)" Can you point out where you offered 100's, or even 1 variable? What are you asking about? And again, I am not stating the cause of climate change in this area, I am saying that farmers using specific temperature overlays in a specific geographical area get higher yields on specific crops. Lower yields on Farmer's Almanac models, lower yields on standard predictive modeling, higher on warming overlays. I called BS on this and was wrong. The numbers seemed insignificant, but years of outcomes show otherwise. Just as Webstermark sees no climate change in the environment on his trip to an isolated stream, I do see change in my area by means of what crops are being grown. His claim that I do not see change in agriculture has no merit, and I can provide ample evidence to the contrary. Is it man-made? Who knows. Are the temp-increase overlay models gaining verifiable results? Yes. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 07/04/21 at 04:49:20 I have seen changes. I have described them here, and even spent years verifying the information and offered it in the past. No, you have not seen changes. You point out higher yields due to fractional temperature increases in a localize environment. That is not evidence climate change is the most pressing concern on earth. I am saying that you present "Effect" but won't accept that from others. You want "Cause" as proof. Like your crime example - you see increase in crime and provide zero reference for cause of crime increase. You present only observation of the result. The increase in crime is easily measurable and obvious. There is no similar climate change observation. If there were, I wouldn’t argue. If somebody else says, I see less crime, you want them to provide a cause for that observation. You won't accept their observation of result. And now you are even going as far as to say what others see. Are you really going to tell me I don't see climate models being used in agriculture? What would you accept as proof? I can offer the models, the outcomes, video of hydrology testing, results of testing, permits for high altitude readings, results of readings, about 20 direct witnesses of this project, farm yield metrics, statements from owners of those yields, video of those statements, and would even offer direct contact with multiple people involved. Would that be enough to show that I have indeed seen farming changes due to weather, and that those changes utilize climate modeling, or will you still think I don't see these things? I think you “see” those things but 1) they were unrecognizable without detail software modeling. 2) are not evidence of anthropogenic climate change. For the one millionth time, I’m not denying the average global temperature is increasing. I’m saying based on what I read that the 1) increase is minimal, 2) that human impact to that temperature is unknown but likely relatively small, 3) that the benefits to the human race with slightly higher temperatures are ignored and the hazards to the human race are ridiculously overstated for political purposes, 4) became climate change has now become an industry on its own with billions of funds flowing through it, the leading authorities are so heavily invested in its continued viability that I do not believe those given the title of expert in this field by our political and corrupt media outlets. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 07/04/21 at 09:10:18 No, you have not seen changes. You point out higher yields due to fractional temperature increases in a localize environment. That is not evidence climate change is the most pressing concern on earth. I never said it is the most pressing concern. I am answering your original question, before you added a request for causation. You asked: As I’ve challenged everyone on here before, give me evidence of one thing you’ve seen in your lifetime that’s different now than 25 years ago that you can directly tie to a temperature increase of a fraction of a degree. What do you think higher yields due to a fractional temperature increases in a localize environment looks like? Do you think I could see it? Let's break this down: "one thing you’ve seen in your lifetime" Consistently higher yields due to the use of fractional temp model overlays. Increased temperature in a specific geographical area within my lifetime. "that’s different now than 25 years ago" Millions of satellite, aircraft, balloon, weather station readings. All available for audit going back more than 25 years. "that you can directly tie to a temperature increase of a fraction of a degree." The yield outcomes of temp increase overlay compared to alternate methods on the same land using the same water and equipment. Now I understand saying I can not conclusively tie outcomes exclusively to fractional temp increase since we can not create a control. The best we could do was offer two additional artificial models and see what their outcomes were. The increase in crime is easily measurable and obvious. There is no similar climate change observation. Except I offered them once I had them verified and you said I should go to a party. What would you accept as evidence of temperate increase averages in a specific geographical area? Your crime example was lacking causation because you are fine offering us only observation. But we have to offer causation as well if we present observation. Why? Your hike to an isolated stream is as good of an argument as mine. Just because your area doesn't show signs of climate change doesn't mean anything outside of that observed area. How are you directly tying your hike to a stream to lack of fractional temperature increase impact? By observation alone. But you won't accept that from us. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by MnSpring on 07/04/21 at 09:36:07 Quote:
Who, is us ? |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Serowbot on 07/04/21 at 09:47:54 Us, is the side that believes in science, data, and facts |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by Eegore on 07/04/21 at 10:29:29 "Who, is us ?" Anyone besides Webstermark. To clarify: Everyone else, or all known humans besides Webstermark. Can you point out where you offered 100's, or even 1 variable? |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 07/05/21 at 05:07:01 5B4D5A475F4A475C280 wrote:
*Life does not begin at conception. *The variables in Climate change science are well understood and future predictions on temperature, ocean levels, plant life, human immigration patterns, hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires, floods are accurate and reliable enough to enact widespread, human history changing regulations. *Men can have babies. Men can dress up as women and fairly compete in athletic events. Constant emphasis on sexuality has no effect on adolescents behavior. Gender Dysphoria is genuinely on the rise and not due to the above. An 8 year has the mental awareness required to undergo permanent gender reassignment procedures. * Regular monthly stimulus checks have no impact on employment. Welfare systems do not encourage illegal immigration. Catch and release policies with no enforcement do not encourage immigration either. *Guns kill, people don’t. If we pass more regulations on guns, criminals will finally stop using them illegally. * Defunding police movements do not further degrade trust and fear of law enforcement and the surge in inner city violence is due to slavery’s legacy. *Mandatory homemade mask usage with civil and criminal enforcement saved millions of lives. Locking down schools, gyms and playgrounds while leaving Home Depot alone made perfect sense. School lockdowns will not impact poor children with a higher percentage of single parent families more than wealthy families who have a home office or simply group neighborhood children together and hire tutors to maintain grade levels. *The last Presidential election was the most honest and fairly conducted election in history. |
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Title: Re: Happy Birthday! Post by WebsterMark on 07/06/21 at 04:22:27 Forgot this one. *You think you can eliminate fossil fuels within a relatively short time frame while maintaining or increasing standard of living at the same or lower cost. And honestly, while lefties like you have so many ridiculous anti-science opinions (and they are just opinions) that might be the dumbest and most lied about of all of them. The competition is tight but I think that one wins it. |
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