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Message started by LS650THUMPER on 06/08/21 at 17:28:15

Title: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and died
Post by LS650THUMPER on 06/08/21 at 17:28:15

riding on highway , 65 mph ,,heard whirling sound and bike died,
no clunk or bang sound,. bike cranks but no start, has spark. Notice spark plug is damaged, looked at valve inspection holes and rockers seem to be moving.. , used starting fluid to see if it would start and it backfired .. I'm thinking it somehow jumped timing... TDC marks seem lined up on left crankcase .
used a scope in spark plug hole and piston seems ok has some dents but no holes in the top

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by verslagen1 on 06/08/21 at 17:36:17

guessing from the apparent age of the plug, it failed.
make sure all the bits and pieces are gone.

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by LS650THUMPER on 06/08/21 at 17:55:44

don't think it was more than one year old

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/09/21 at 09:10:56

The "whirling sound" started when the bits of spark plug got caught in the valve seat causing a loss of compression. The seat is probably now damaged. A leak-down test is required for further diagnosis.

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by DragBikeMike on 06/09/21 at 10:53:13

Certainly looks bad.  Spark plugs don't just fall apart.  You said there are dents in the piston.  The LS piston sits well away from the top of the cylinder at TDC.  Something had to be way out there for contact with the piston.  As you mentioned, may have jumped timing.  Could have also been an exhaust valve sticking.  Something hit that spark plug.  You can't tell anything by just looking at the timing marks on the end of the alternator rotor.  You need to know where the cam is.  Easiest way to check is just throw a compression gage in there and crank it.

Good luck.  

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by LS650THUMPER on 06/09/21 at 19:05:54

tonite drained oil...clean ,,  no metal pieces , pulled off right side cover just to see if cam chain and all was ok . everything on right side seems ok. will look at left side tomorrow

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/10/21 at 06:34:28

You find pulling covers off easier than a leak-down or compression test? A leak-down test will point you DIRECTLY to the problem.

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by LS650THUMPER on 06/10/21 at 17:36:13

reason I'm taking covers off is to see if any damage, last two oil changes had small metal pieces in pan. figure better to have a look at it before I toss it in a scrap metal dumpster, or make it a boat anchor

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by Hiko on 06/10/21 at 19:50:43


6877121114706C7169746176240 wrote:
tonite drained oil...clean ,,  no metal pieces , pulled off right side cover just to see if cam chain and all was ok . everything on right side seems ok. will look at left side tomorrow


Looking at that from the other side of the world it looks real dirty in there and the cam chain adjuster is about to do its grenade thing

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by DragBikeMike on 06/10/21 at 23:48:11

Good eye Hiko.  I agree, the tensioner is ready to fall apart.

LS650Thumper, where is the ground electrode off your spark plug?  Have you retrieved it from inside the engine?  Could it possibly be in your muffler?  Shake the muffler and see if you can hear anything rattling around.  I usually pull my header pipe when I remove my clutch cover.  If you did that, this would be a good time to look into the exhaust port and check out the exhaust valves.  

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by LS650THUMPER on 06/11/21 at 16:50:55

header off !!exhaust is open so think its long gone !
both cases are off , haven't taken the top off yet !!

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by Dave on 06/12/21 at 09:16:46


47583D3E3B5F435E465B4E590B0 wrote:
header off !!exhaust is open so think its long gone !


Spark plugs don't normally destruct on their own - something likely came loose and got between the piston/head/spark plug.  It is odd that you didn't hear clanking and banging.

There have been a few engines with the exhaust valves coming apart -  one of the valves comes apart for some reason.  The exact reason has not been found and some claim it is a valve that doesn't have enough clearance and it never seats properly to cool down and it overheats....while there is also some claims that a valve that has too much clearance can drop heavily onto the seat and overload the stem. Having too lean of a fuel/air mixture is also a potential cause.

If you like the bike and want to keep it - having to replace a head and piston is not a horrible event, as it gives you an excuse to do the Wiseco piston upgrade and some porting on the head!  

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by LS650THUMPER on 06/13/21 at 13:28:27

ok the exhaust valve went south !!!
if your close to Massachusetts 500 bucks takes the carcass / Forked by frank , 4" longer forks,  31+++miles

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by LS650THUMPER on 06/13/21 at 13:30:07

piston

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by LS650THUMPER on 06/13/21 at 13:32:29

2002

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by Gary_in_NJ on 06/13/21 at 14:29:55

A jab of JB Weld and it will be ok.

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by Dave on 06/13/21 at 14:50:30

Oooops!  That is a bit nasty!

I'll give you $20 for the piston with the valve lodged in it - it has artistic merit! ;)

Look at the valve seat.....doesn't it look like it is covered in carbon deposits?  Could this valve have been running with too tight of clearances and not seating fully when the engine got up to temperature?

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by LS650THUMPER on 06/13/21 at 15:56:29

#SavageArt

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by DragBikeMike on 06/13/21 at 17:20:16

Oh my, that's impressive.

LS650THUMPER, to add to our knowledge base, would it be possible to post a few more pics.  By any chance, is there any evidence that the adjacent exhaust valve made contact with the piston?  A picture straight down at the top of the piston would be great.

If the adjacent valve made contact with the piston, it would imply that you had a timing issue.  If the adjacent valve did not contact the piston, it would imply that you had a stuck valve, an overheated valve, or a fatigue failure.

Also, can you examine the other valves and tell us if they possibly have undercut stems.   This picture shows a standard valve on the left, and a valve with an undercut stem on the right.  Can you tell if you have undercut stems?

Seems to me, if your valve just snapped off, the remainder of the stem should have simply shot right on up when you removed the head cover.  It's got a lot of spring trying to pull it right out of the guide.  From what I can see, the remainder of the valve stem is stuck in the guide.  When you removed the head cover, was it evident that the valve had snapped off?  Was the stem, retainer, and spring sticking up significantly higher than the adjacent valve?

Thanks for sharing these pictures and your failure report.  It's very beneficial to the rest of us.  

RIP 40 incher.  She served you well, but alas, it was her time.  BTW, don't sell Dave that piston.  You were astride the beast when the valve met it's maker.  You gotta hang on to the trophy.

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by springman on 06/18/21 at 15:20:12

I feel for you LS, but thanks for the pics.

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by SCS40 on 06/18/21 at 16:22:27

Wow. Sorry to hear. Puts my problems in perspective.

Title: Re: riding on highway , heard whirling sound and d
Post by Dave on 07/19/21 at 03:52:17

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